Who Should Skip “The Degree Free Way” and How to Support Your Young Adult Without Co-Signing Loans (DF#165)

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:00]:
So many parents are feeling like they have to co sign loans. And when they do that, the amount that colleges will come for you, they'll come for your retirement. They will come for your house. They absolutely will. They will slowly, slowly, slowly. They will bleed your kids dry and they will come for your retirement 401 ks. You're gonna be taken out a HELOC on your house to try to pay for a bachelor's degree that's taken 6 years to get. And that's what I'm sure this parent was really concerned about.

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:24]:
Aloha folks and welcome back to degree free. In this week's episode, we talk about a bunch of stuff. We start with who shouldn't buy the degree free way, like literally who should not.

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:35]:
And we go into depth about who it does not work for.

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:38]:
Yes, we go into depth. So you're definitely not going to want to miss that. We also talk about how you can help us with all different types of reviews, apple podcast reviews, the degree free way. If you've purchased it, please go to DFW reviews. Degreefree.co and leave us your reviews there. At the end of the conversation, we talk a lot about one specific family that did the degree free way. And they said that the book didn't work for them. And we're going to talk about why it actually did the outcome that they wanted.

Ryan Maruyama [00:01:13]:
Wasn't the outcome that the mom wanted the workbook worked a 100%. And so we get into a bunch of stuff today. I hope you like this little summary that we're doing at the beginning. We're just trying a bunch of things out. All right. Enjoy the episode. The first thing that I wanted to get into is a little bit different than probably what you would expect. To be talking about today.

Ryan Maruyama [00:01:40]:
We've been talking a lot about the degree freeway, how to help your 16 to 20 year old build the life they want. We've been talking a lot about the process of writing it, about the process of selling it and what this could do for your young adult and how it can help them go from. I don't know what I want to do to having 3 solid job options that help them live the life they want and then help them reach their life goals. And then after they've identified those 3 jobs, then they can figure out whether or not it requires a degree or not. We've been talking a lot about it. And definitely if you are a parent of a 16 to 20 year old, definitely pick up the book. You can go to degreefree.coforward/book. But what I wanted to start with today is actually counterintuitive to everything that we've been talking about.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:24]:
I want to talk about who should not buy this book.

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:27]:
Yeah. It's about time we did this.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:28]:
Because we have been getting a lot of inbound and a lot of questions for people. Well, does this work for X? Does this work for Y? It ranges from really young. Does this work for a 7 year old? Does this work for a 12 year old? Does this work for 47 year old? Exactly. Or I was thinking about the exact opposite. I was thinking about a person that was like, does this work for an almost retired person who is thinking about coming back into the workforce just for another 3, 4 years? We tried to make it as very simple as possible. And we understand that these are very massive needs in the market and people need this information and the people need to find work and everything like that. Totally. But we wanted to make it as simple as possible for people to understand who this book is for and who we wrote this book for and who we think it's going to help the most, which is why we put ages in the subtitle, how to help your 16 to 20 year old build the life they want.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:31]:
This book is meant for parents that are helping their 16 to 20 year olds figure out what they need and what they want from their future work, and then how to find options that fit those goals. That is who we wrote this book to.

Hannah Maruyama [00:03:46]:
That is what it does. It's a tool. It does one thing. It helps parents and their 16 to 20 year old young adult children find 3 jobs that helps them live the way they want. That is all it does. That's who it's for. That's the only people it works for.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:58]:
So if you are asking these questions, like, will this work for me? I'm not gonna tell you, no. It's not gonna work for you, but I am probably gonna tell you right now, don't buy the book because it is not written for you. It may help you.

Hannah Maruyama [00:04:11]:
The principles are helpful. They are.

Ryan Maruyama [00:04:13]:
But this is written for parents of 16 to 20 year old. And if you buy this book outside of that age range, you're going to be saying to yourself, like, a lot of people might be thinking, oh, this isn't useful to me. Well, yeah, we wrote them for parents of 16 to 20 year olds.

Hannah Maruyama [00:04:28]:
And you are not a parent or a 16 to 20 year old. Someone asked us this question this morning, actually on TikTok and they just said, hi, I'm 27 years old, trying to find my next job after I went to college and it didn't work out. Would this work for me? And I said, no, it would not work for you. It is similar to an adult saying, I want to go dancing. And someone's like, oh yeah, let's do it. And then that night they go out and they show up at high school prom.

Ryan Maruyama [00:04:50]:
Hey there. I hope you're enjoying this episode of the degree free podcast at degree free. We want to help everyone thrive and succeed without needing a college degree, and the only way to truly reach everyone is with your help. If you're getting value out of this episode or if this is your second, 3rd, or 4th episode that you're tuning into, if you could just ship this to a friend, just click that one button and share it with someone in your contacts or on your stories. It would mean the world to us. And more importantly, get our message out to more people who need help getting out of their current situation. Situation. If you could do that right now, that would mean a whole lot.

Hannah Maruyama [00:05:27]:
It's not going to be a great dance for somebody who's 27 because it's a high school prom. For high school students, it's perfect because it's literally designed for them to go to. Can you dance at the prom if you are 27? Theoretically, if they let you in the door, then yes. But is it going to be a great dance for you? No. Because it's full of high schoolers because that's who it's for. And so it's very similar in principle. So I realized that what this is telling Ryan and I, when we see these comments, is So I realized that what this is telling Ryan and I, when we see these comments is that we understand that there is a need for older job seekers. We understand that we are solving one problem at a time, something that we as a team, and then the rest of our team as well have been focusing in on is we need to focus on one problem at a time to effectively solve them and try not to get distracted, which is very hard when there's so much need.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:13]:
And there's so many people that need help. This is something we know this is something we do care very deeply about, but right now we're solving the young adult problem because if we can cut off that student debt at the source, and we can start doing that with generations that has massive impact down the line. So we're starting at that problem. And then we will go back and solve the other problems. But right now we're focused on the one. So when people say, will this work for me? No, it will not work for you. We didn't write it for you. We wrote it for the parents of 16 to 20 year olds to help their kids solve this problem.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:42]:
We will come back for you. We will. But right now that is not what we were doing. We are worried about this group of people, because that is the problem we chose to solve. First.

Ryan Maruyama [00:06:51]:
I think about it like going to a pediatrician when you're middle aged and you're talking to them about things like menopause or hair loss, things like that.

Hannah Maruyama [00:07:03]:
Thyroid problems.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:04]:
Yeah. And then you're sitting down in this little chair on the little table that you find in pediatricians office, and you're like, how come we don't do this? It's like, oh, because I'm a pediatrician. It's the same thing. You wouldn't be disappointed if you walked into a pediatrician's office and they didn't know how to deal with midlife problems and they didn't have good remedies for it because

Hannah Maruyama [00:07:23]:
they treat younger patients.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:25]:
That's what they do. Same thing here. This is meant for parents that have 16 to 20 year olds. That is who we wrote this book for. And it says it right on the cover. And if you have to ask basically, and this is not being mean. I want you the purchaser. I want you to be satisfied and I want you to be happy with the product that you buy.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:46]:
So if you are looking and you're like thinking about, is this for me? If you're asking that question, it's probably not. And I don't mean that in a mean way at all. I just mean that you're gonna buy it and then you're gonna be like, you're gonna be super disappointed because you're like, dad, this is a high school prom. And it's like, well, it's meant to be a high school prom. And if you're a high schooler, you would dig this.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:03]:
It's kind of like how financial planning and budgeting that's geared towards young adults to try to help them plan out and be more strategic. It's not gonna work for somebody who already has other complications.

Ryan Maruyama [00:08:12]:
That's exactly right. If you're starting in the financial planning world or if you're starting in the budgeting world, personal finance in general, you're gonna start at the places that are like, well, you first need to not spend more than you bring in. And that is where you're going to start. You're going to start there. After that, it goes into, okay, well, here are all the different things that you can do once you have wealth. Once you've gotten that established, then you can do all of these other things. But if you're wealthy and you consume good content about personal finance at the very basic blocks of it, like, woah, well, don't spend as much as you bring in. That's super rudimentary.

Ryan Maruyama [00:08:49]:
This is not for me.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:50]:
It's for somebody younger than you.

Ryan Maruyama [00:08:52]:
But we say this not to be mean. We just

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:53]:
want to be clear.

Ryan Maruyama [00:08:54]:
We want to be clear and we want you to be happy and we want you to be happy with the result of these things. When you buy this book, you're like, yeah, this was exactly for me. So if you're a parent of 16, 21 year old, everybody should buy this book. If you're anything outside of that, don't buy it. And then, I mean that from the bottom of my heart, and we are absolutely building products and different lines of things on the roadmap. It is coming. It is down the line. I don't know exactly how long it's going to take us.

Ryan Maruyama [00:09:20]:
There's obviously clearly a massive need in the market. We are working on it. If we diverted our resources towards doing everything, we would get nothing done right now. What we have to do is we have to focus on this people that we are helping. I don't want to quote times, but I think very soon you and I have been having a lot of internal conversations about what we can do for these older people.

Hannah Maruyama [00:09:44]:
We've been talking through quite a few things. We sit down, we actually have a big whiteboards all over the place, and we also have these big notepads that we use to wireframe things out. And we've had multiple conversations, multiple meetings, and we're trying to figure out where we're going to put that energy and then when we're going to do it. And so we are actively doing it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:01]:
And when we launch those things,

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:03]:
they will be for you.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:05]:
Exactly. And you're never going to have to ask yourself, is this for me? Because it'll be clear that this is for you. And then when you buy it, you're going to be satisfied because you're going to read it and you're going to do it or whatever it is. It might be a course, might be a book. I'm not sure. It

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:18]:
was designed to fix your specific problem in a way that's actionable for you in the same way that this is actionable for parents and their young adult children.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:25]:
That's exactly right. And so I just wanted to get that out there and just let everybody know we are working on it every single day, 7 days a week. Literally, it's all we do, and it's all we think about. And we are working on it, and we are getting to you as quickly as we can. If you want to stay in the know about when those things are going to be launched, then the best things that you can do is subscribe to all of our socials, degree free on TikTok, Instagram, most places, degree free pod on some other places like Twitter and things like that. And then if you want, you can subscribe to our newsletter, degreefree.coforward/newsletter, and then stay subscribed to this podcast. These are the best places to stay in the know about when we are gonna create those things for you. And then if you're a parent of a 16 to 20 year old and you wanna get your copy of the degree free way, you can go to degreefree.c0forward/book, and you can do so there.

Ryan Maruyama [00:11:18]:
The second thing that I wanted to talk about is actually really quick is we've been so busy with the book launch and with the fulfillment and everything like that and getting the supplier set up and all of that. I haven't had time to send emails asking for reviews and everything like that of the workbook. If everybody that bought the workbook, if you're listening to this now, which I know that there are thousands of people that listen to this that have also bought the workbook. If you enjoy the workbook, if you want to tell other people about it, the best way that you can do that is you could go to DFW reviews.degreefree. Co. And that is DFW like degree freeway reviews.degreefree.co and I'll flash on the screen and then we will put it in the show notes as well. Please leave us your comments, your reviews. It really helps us to let other people know about it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:09]:
And if for everybody that wants to go above and beyond, please make a video on TikTok or on Instagram, wherever, YouTube and tag us and let us know what your thoughts are on the degree free way. Now completely changing gears here.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:25]:
This is my favorite segment of the podcast. I love this. I never know what to expect because Ryan always reads those reviews. I do not read our podcast reviews. Ryan does. And then the cream of the crop gets brought to the podcast.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:37]:
Well, right now, currently, if you're listening to this podcast, please leave us a review.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:42]:
Five stars.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:42]:
Apple Podcasts, 5 stars. And we read all of them. If they're good, I will read them on the podcast here.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:49]:
We like our reviews with some character.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:50]:
Yeah. Well and genuine feedback and everything like that. I'm gonna read these 2 reviews actually, though. So this is from goofball number 1.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:58]:
Love it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:58]:
My husband retired from the military in 2021. We're in the small business slash entrepreneur realm now with several kids in the about to launch range. I'm excited to broaden their possibilities and find myself wishing you had something similar for us. Midlifers too. Thank you for changing the conversation about the necessity and the true cost of pursuing college degrees. My younger sister is over her head in college related debt and will never be free of it. And like so many, she's not even working in her field of study. I wish someone had been saying these things 25 years ago.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:33]:
That's one of the most frequent things we hear. I wish you had existed before.

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:36]:
So there's a bunch of things that I wanted to talk about there. One, goofball. Thank you so much for the 5 star reviews.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:41]:
We appreciate it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:42]:
And like we said, I find myself wishing you had something similar for us midlifers too. Like, we just went over.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:47]:
We're working on it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:48]:
We are totally, totally working on it. The thing is is we are just not sure of what it should be. And we're not sure of the delivery vehicle of whether or not it should be a workbook like this or whether or not it should be a course or whether or not it should be a bunch of things. We're just not sure. And we want to make sure that when we make it, it is worth your time and your money. Really. I mean, sure. Your money for sure.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:13]:
But really the way that we think about it is worth your time.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:16]:
We want it to be accessible, actionable, and extremely useful. And so that's a high bar. And for us, it takes a lot of thought, a lot of creation, a lot of hours is put into research, creation, writing, developing, testing so many things. And so we will not bring you something until it's been through that process until we have made sure that it's the best thing that we can make.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:40]:
I'm a bunch of things I could say about this, just to move it along. Cause I have another one to read too. And then we have a bunch of stuff we have to get into. I wish someone had been saying these things 25 years ago. Like you said, we hear that all the time. What it has brought to the forefront for me is what we talk about a lot and what you've pointed out more than me, which is the negative ROI on college has been negative for decades. And once you'd make the purchase and then 25 years later, your life doesn't work out like how you thought it was when they've sold you the product that you're like, wow, okay. That didn't work out.

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:19]:
And for those 25 years for that generation, they were still purchasing and they're still purchasing and they were still purchasing. And so it's a really lagging indicator. It lags by 25 years.

Hannah Maruyama [00:15:31]:
That's why nobody was saying it. That's why when we talked about the Scott Scott Galloway thing, I remember the breakdown where we talked about the higher education act and all of the proof, the numbers clearly say that it wasn't worth it. It hasn't been for a very long time. And Scott Galloway, because he's also 60 years old, when he bought his degree, it was still within the window of possible margin for profitability. But since then, it's not. So that's why when he makes the argument now, it's really hollow.

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:53]:
I'm very grateful to be in the position that we're in talking about these things. And like you and I say all the time, it's not like we are creating something. We are just riding the wave. This was going to happen. It has been happening, and we are not creating anything.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:11]:
We just named it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:11]:
We're just riding the wave. That's it. We're just riding this thing of well, look, it doesn't look great, and we're just pointing at it. That's it. And then the second one that I wanted to read, this is from AGN 1983, another 5 star review. Thank you so much. I love that this podcast is rethinking the idea that college is the only route to success. As a millennial, I was told to go to college and you will be successful.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:32]:
Now as someone in my forties, I know that is completely false, and there are so many different ways to have a successful career. And this podcast is discussing all the alternatives. Once again, this goes to literally exactly what we were just saying. Right? Like, now as someone in my forties, it takes 20 years for you to realize that it's a scam.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:53]:
I really appreciate that review too because talking about the fact that we're talking about these alternatives, it's so wild to me. I am absolutely about to hate on a TikTok commenter. Full disclosure, everybody. I'm about to be a little snarky. But, basically, this guy was in the comments on TikTok, and he was so mad about the fact that I said somebody could become a financial advisor without buying a college degree. And I said, you can look at the FINRA website. It says it it's publicly available knowledge. It's very tiresome to just argue with something that is on the internet and a verifiable fact that you can just look up in 0.3 seconds.

Hannah Maruyama [00:17:26]:
And then this person reveals that they have a law degree from Yale. Doesn't know the law. And it's amazing to me that people in these echelons, like these high lofty Ivy league schools, And then also this law degree from Yale and didn't know that you can still read the law in 4 states. Literally just didn't know that. It's like, you can't be a lawyer. That's illegal. And I said, it's not, it's 4 states. You can still read the law and then falls into multiple logical fallacies.

Hannah Maruyama [00:17:53]:
Where is they're just going, well, that's only 4 states. I'm like, yes, but it's 4 states. And then you can test and take the bar in different other states to have reciprocity. And they're like, well, that's now only 14 states. And I'm like, okay. But literally 3 minutes ago, it was 0. Cause you just didn't know. And this is somebody who has bought a degree from an extremely expensive university and it has just not been taught their options and the anger and the bitterness of people who clearly just didn't know that there's other ways.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:21]:
And it traps people into what our first reviewer talked about, where their sister just didn't know that there was another way. And now has ended up in a completely different field of work as 75% of graduates do basically just the downstream effects of not teaching people their options and not giving them information and not informing them that there are in fact other avenues, there are other ways to try and there are other things you can do.

Ryan Maruyama [00:18:42]:
I wouldn't fault the guy just because he went to Yale for not knowing that you can be a financial advisor, just because he went to Yale and had a law degree doesn't mean that he's informed about

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:52]:
I only fault him because he called me an idiot when he was wrong.

Ryan Maruyama [00:18:55]:
Right. Right. Yeah. But I'm just saying, you understand why that's not, like, a reason.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:58]:
I do fault him for being a lawyer that doesn't know where he can practice the law in the United States. That's a little embarrassing.

Ryan Maruyama [00:19:02]:
But the thing is is he knows where he can practice law in the United States, which is he can sit for the bar anywhere. I mean, they're saying, like, he is aware of those things. For his own life, he is informed. And so what I think is the bigger thing is that he just bought into this mentality of buying degrees. Buying degrees is the way forward and that he doesn't realize that you don't need a degree, and he doesn't know what financial advisors do. He just doesn't understand the industry, obviously, because if he understood what it was, then he would know that you don't need a college degree because financial advising is sales. If you can sell, then you can be a financial advisor, as long as you can pass all of your licensing exams, which I mean, for some people it might be hard.

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:41]:
Yeah. You gotta study like anything.

Ryan Maruyama [00:19:42]:
Like you just have to study to pass them.

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:44]:
Last point. But it's amazing to me how people don't know the parameters of their own professions. You would think that if you're going to pay that much money to become whatever that is, you would do some research into where and when and how and the other ways, because that's the biggest thing. And we're going to talk about this a little bit later, but I just wish people would look into before they buy paper. Always. They should always look into, is this the only way for me to do this? Is this the only way? Because you should just know if there is an alternative, even if you decide not to take that alternative, because then you just know it's there. And, you know, like I just said, the parameters of your profession, Like if you want to be a corner, but you can be a corner in some places without buying college degree, you should know that information. So just so you understand where and when and how you can practice your chosen profession.

Hannah Maruyama [00:20:26]:
Because even if later on down the line, you need to pivot for some reason, you should just know that information.

Ryan Maruyama [00:20:31]:
I totally hear what you're saying. I don't really have any thoughts about this. This is a new thought to me is it reminds me of just, like, different types of shoppers that are buying things. There are people that are willing to do the simple and easy purchase. Let's say that this is an ice crusher and it's a blender or something like that. They're like, yep. I need both of those things, and I'm willing to just pay whatever you charge me because I know that this does both of those things. And then there's the people that shop that are thinking, okay, well, I need, ice crusher and I need a blender.

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:05]:
And I'm using this is obviously a bad example. This is a very new thought to me. So, like, obviously, this is a bad example. Just stick with me. Just pretend like those two things are different for a second. Okay. I need an ice crusher and I need a blender. Okay.

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:16]:
Where can I get an ice crusher? And then where can I get a blender? And can I do those things differently and cheaper than just buying a integrated product for my troubles? It reminds me very much of that. And so for the people that just go with the integrated product that does the 2 in one that's more expensive, they don't need to know that there's a separate product that does 2 different things. They'd be like, oh, well, there's an ice crusher here and there's a thing here, and then they both did the same thing. And they're just like, well, yeah. Okay. That's cool. But, like, I don't care. With being a lawyer, I'm gonna be a lawyer.

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:49]:
I know that I wanna be a lawyer. I'm gonna go to law school because that's how it's done, and I don't care about anything else. That's how it's done. Well, that's not how it's done. You can crush your ice and you can blend it 2 different ways. I mean, like, there are different ways to do it, but, I mean, that is a way to get it done. I completely hear what you're saying. Yeah.

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:04]:
Because it's not always pricing thing too. It might just be better quality if you just bought the blender. Maybe the blender does a better job, but you would just don't know if you don't look and that's the thing. But you're right. It's just different types of shopping styles.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:14]:
The next thing that I wanted to bring up really quickly is we are starting to bring back something that I never did, which we are starting to take questions again for everybody.

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:27]:
Again, for the first time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:28]:
Again, for the first time. To ask us a question that you want answered, go to ask.degreefree.co. And we are doing it where you have to record your question because we want to, 1, see your face, see who you are. And so that we know who like, we're going to talk to one person. We're going to answer your question. Nobody else's question. For you. Yeah, exactly.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:47]:
And so we just want to see who we're talking about. But then also selfishly, as we talked about before, when we were doing this before, when I never did it, it is helpful for the content. It is helpful for us to put it up just so that other people can hear that, like, an actual person did ask this question. And I didn't just write down a freaking question on my pad and be like, yeah. So Sally from Denver asked and she's like, Sally from Denver, but didn't ask anything. But then if you show us your face and you're asking us a question or from Sally from Denver, she's real And she did ask us a question. Do so at ask.degreefree.co for everybody else that has already asked us a question from our old link. We had some problems with that old technology we were using, and it is taking me longer than expected to export everything from it because, candidly, the company that we were using, we went under, they are no longer supporting it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:23:40]:
So the files are stranded. I can see them, but I just have to figure out a way to get them, and I cannot export them. And so I have to do something. I'll figure it out.

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:50]:
Technology hoops.

Ryan Maruyama [00:23:51]:
Yeah. Exactly. And so that's why we haven't done one yet. It's just logistically been too hard. I haven't had the time to do it yet. But we are bringing it back because we've moved to a different platform, and it's going to be much easier now. So ask.degreefree.co. Record your question, ask us your question, and you can do so on your phone.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:09]:
It's super simple.

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:10]:
All right. So I recently spoke to someone who bought the degree freeway, who was a parent of a 16 to 20 year old who used the degree freeway and then said, oh, it was really good, but I guess it only works if the child wants to listen. And I thought this was interesting and I'm going to describe to you folks what the situation was and then what happened and then what Ryan and I think about what happened because this brought up some really interesting points for us.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:36]:
I just want to clear up something real quick, which is this person, basically, I mean, not in so many words. They didn't actually say this, but just to make for you, the listener, what they were insinuating was that the workbook didn't work for them. And because they're special and the situation that they have is special. And so I just wanted to tell you that.

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:51]:
We'll basically talk about that situation. I helped this individual troubleshoot a little bit too. And then the end result was something that we realized we need to escalate the solution to this. So we'll give you the solution to this if you went through the workbook and this is what happened to you. Because this may happen to a couple people. This might happen to about, like, 10% of the people that use the workbooks or maybe less than that. But, basically, what happened was this individual went through the workbook with her child, and her child insisted that they wanted to be an orthodontist, that they're going to make $500,000 a year. There's a few issues here.

Hannah Maruyama [00:25:21]:
One, that's not what orthodontists make. The median orthodontist makes about $219,000 a year where they live, which is something I looked up. And that's only after they get through all of their schooling. Very long time where they are only paying and then making very little money and then making 2 19. And the child believes that it's going to be worth it and told her parent I'll be able to pay off my student loan debt in 2 years, which is laughable. That is laughable to think that you're going to pay off a half a $1,000,000 to 600,000. It's probably gonna be $750,000 of student loan debt by the time it's all said and done.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:56]:
And this just has to do with the amount of schooling that it requires to become an orthodontist.

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:03]:
And the amount of time that you will be low earning because you have to go through your residency.

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:07]:
But I'm just talking about the debt that you have to go into to come out the other end, it's going to be around $600,000 Let's just call it half a million.

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:19]:
It's more than that, but yeah, If you

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:21]:
want it, let's just call it 250,000 still.

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:23]:
And that's really rosy, but yeah, sure. Let's say $250,000

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:26]:
paying that off in 2 years is not going to happen. The first thing is like in what two period years, if you're talking about like, as soon as you start making money.

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:34]:
No, because you're going to be older, you're going to want to buy a house.

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:36]:
No. But you're gonna be making $90. The math, this doesn't math out. Even if I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and I'm saying that it's gonna be $250 of debt that you're gonna go into, which it's gonna be way more. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and let's just say that it's a $150 of debt that you're going to go into for however many years of school, 8 years of school. Everyone who listens to this podcast knows that it's going to be way more than that than a $150, but you're going to get paid $90 right after in your residency. Less than that. But I'm just, sure.

Ryan Maruyama [00:27:02]:
Let's just say $90. Right? As you're making $90 and then you make another $90 for 2 years. That's a $180. So for 2 years, and that's not even with taxes or anything like that. What you're saying is that you can live off $15,000 a year. That's what you're saying to me when you say that you can do this in 2 years.

Hannah Maruyama [00:27:20]:
Yeah. Which is just not realistic.

Ryan Maruyama [00:27:22]:
Because there's no rent. You didn't rent taxes, all of those things.

Hannah Maruyama [00:27:26]:
Unless you're still living at home and you're not helping your parents out at all, and you have no spouse, interests, pets, life, anything at all. So it theoretically, it could be done. But the thing that I wanted to say here, and this is why people fall into this trap all the time with medicine, with anything related to medicine, dentistry, anything like that, they fall into this trap of, oh, it'll be high earning. And that's not incorrect. Well, it's growing increasingly less correct, actually, as private equity buys up, especially orthodontist off. I was like, woof, orthodontist is rough. Right? Because the only way to do that is to go into private practice for yourself and be really, really, really expensive, and probably also live in an expensive area where you can charge a lot of money, but then your cost of living also goes up. The thing that's really huge though, is that private equity is buying up all these dental offices and their income, the wage that they will make is not very much.

Hannah Maruyama [00:28:10]:
And they're basically indentured servants.

Ryan Maruyama [00:28:11]:
The reason why orthodontist is a good profession though, it's kind of similar to like going into plastics if you're going to be a surgeon, is because the amount that you have to kowtow to the insurance companies is much less compared to most insurances. I think it's increasing now compared to 20 years ago when we were kids, and they just didn't cover it at all. I think it's starting to cover it a little bit more now, but for the most part, they still don't. It's still very much elective or it's much more of a cash focused business. Exactly to what you were saying.

Hannah Maruyama [00:28:43]:
You have to be a business owner.

Ryan Maruyama [00:28:45]:
It is different than being an ortho regular orthodontist. You're a business owner now.

Hannah Maruyama [00:28:48]:
Correct. It is different. And, but I think a lot of these kids don't understand that. They don't realize that they're going to have to be business owners. They're gonna have to hire staff. They're gonna have to have payroll. I don't think that they really understand that the way to break out of the low pay for working for the private equity chains that you see all over the place. I don't think they understand that the way to do that has been as ownership, which is going to greatly increase their costs, which is also greatly going to increase how much debt that they have at the beginning, especially.

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:11]:
And that's something that I just don't think connects. I think they think that you go out, you go to school, you get hired and you make $220,000 a year. And I don't even think to think about taxes. I just don't think that they're realistic. They also are unrealistic about how much they're going to expect to have in their life. They want nice cars. They want a house because they worked all that time, but they can't afford it because they're strapped. I mean, doctors

Ryan Maruyama [00:29:31]:
are some of the worst people with money. Yeah. Nobody

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:33]:
wants to talk about that, but a lot of it is because of the way that we punish them by the way that we structure paying for school.

Ryan Maruyama [00:29:40]:
Super big tangent. I apologize for knocking you off track.

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:43]:
No. No. It's okay. It's something that I just wanna talk about though, because people in the comments I'm recently filmed the TikTok about this where I was talking about these high cost, high risk jobs and So my son's going to be a doctor. I'm like, okay, but I just want you to understand the risk profile of this. People just think that it's this golden ticket checkbox. Oh, they're going to be fine. I'm like, I don't know if that's true.

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:00]:
And you really have to measure the cost of that very, very carefully. But anyway, the reason that this matters is because the daughter, the workbook did work for her because she gets to the end. She has her degree for 3. Orthodontist is the top one, and it says needs a degree. So she knows that an orthodontist is what she wants to be. That is what in theory fits her life goals. And she needs to buy a college degree to do it. All of those things are true.

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:22]:
Unfortunately, the reason it's like that is because the daughter put her industry and job type at the top of her needs. She thinks that it's money, but it's actually not. She has chosen a specific profession as her first need. I need to be an orthodontist and then money is second. If income was first, then it would just be make $220,000 a year. And there are much easier, much faster ways to make $220,000 a year. I suggested some of them to her mother, but she wants to be an orthodontist. I gave other options that are medical repair tax and medical sales, even ortho sales.

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:56]:
There's so much sales actually in that that would make her that amount of money, give her a more flexible schedule, all that kind of stuff. And this is why in the book we actually say, be very careful putting job type or industry at the top of your needs, because it will dictate every other thing. Because if you pick a certain job type, it will dictate how much money you make. It will dictate what your schedule is. It will dictate where you can work and it will dictate the work environment that you were in. And that's why that's so important. That's why coming in and saying, my child wants to be an ex is the wrong place to start, even if they may want to do that. But just now the job of the parent is to help them figure out what other jobs make that amount of money.

Hannah Maruyama [00:31:36]:
And then if you can find a job in that industry, then great. But the main thing you're looking for is illustrating to them that they can make that amount of money without paying that amount of money. And they can do it a lot faster.

Ryan Maruyama [00:31:47]:
This was a big thing for me because I put this part of this framework together and I was the one that was like, okay, this needs to be in the book, but we need to put a lot of guardrails around this. I'm holding up the workbook right now for those on YouTube here, and it is right here in the needs versus wants in the workbook. I'm just gonna read you here what it is. There's 5 different sections, and you have to clarify your needs and your wants in these 5 different sections. So it's money, location, work environment, schedule, and then there is a bonus. And that is the industry slash type of work. And that is an optional section. If you put needs here, I have a very big warning label.

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:35]:
It says danger zone.

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:36]:
It literally says danger zone and I'll read it right now. It says putting needs in this section severely limits career paths. Use only if absolutely sure. What I think would happen is that the mom, she obviously wanted a different outcome. That's obvious. Which is why she basically said that the book didn't work because she had expectations and they weren't met because she thought that by seeing the math out in front of her, that it would make her change her mind. But no, it just cemented that she wanted to do it. Then our book did work.

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:09]:
A 100% it worked. And the reason why is she put something in the danger zone. She wants to be an orthodontist. She doesn't wanna make half a $1,000,000 a year. There are easier ways to make half a $1,000,000 than paying 600,000 over 8 years, making zero income and paying $600,000 over 8 years. There are easier ways to make half a $1,000,000. If that was the goal, then her need would be in the first section money. But her need was in the 5th section, which is the optional section, which is in the danger zone of needs industry.

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:39]:
And it was orthodontist.

Hannah Maruyama [00:33:40]:
That was the one she chose.

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:41]:
And Yeah. And I think just the mom

Hannah Maruyama [00:33:43]:
Was worried about that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:44]:
Yeah. We just wish that she could have told her, don't do this.

Hannah Maruyama [00:33:47]:
And the thing is the mom said that her actual money needs were only $60,000 a year, which is really reasonable. I felt that that was extremely reasonable to live the type of waste that she wants. Or I was like, wow, that's really amazing actually that she got it to, I felt, fairly realistic number. I was like, oh, wow. That's great. The thing is though, this isn't actually a wrong result. If she got that, and that's most important to her, then that is the way that she should go. This is why when we talk about this, people say, what about my kid with an IEP? What about my kid that's this? What about my kid that's this? If your child wants to be a surgeon and that works for the way that they want to live their life, this book will tell them that that is the case.

Hannah Maruyama [00:34:21]:
It will. You just have to be realistic. You have to be careful because sometimes when confronted with the math, they might still want to do that. And honestly, if they do and they see the amount of debt and all that kind of stuff, that might be the correct path for them. But you have to prove that out. Because part of what this does is offer peace of mind where that does that is her choice. That is her decision. That is what she wants to do.

Ryan Maruyama [00:34:40]:
So that's one of the things that I wanna talk about as well, which is we get the question, will this work if my child wants to be a x y z? So I want to answer that question right now. So will this work if my child wants to be an orthodontist? Let me tell you how it will and how it will not work. So let me start with not first. It will not help you if you are trying to figure out how your child can be an orthodontist and what are the different steps to get there. We don't get into that at all. Where it will help you is figuring out if that is really what your child wants to do. And this is literally what we do every day. So we talk to more people than you probably do about these types of things.

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:21]:
And so when young adults say, oh, I want to be marketing manager, or I want to be an orthodontist, or I want to be this. They haven't put the thought process into it. Many people, not all, but most people have not put the thought process behind. Like, will that job that you're trying to go after, will that provide this life that I want to live? Which is why we named the book, How to Help Your 16 to 20 Year Old Build the Life They Want. Because they're just gonna say, well, I wanna be an orthodontist. Okay. Awesome. Well, what do you wanna do in your life? Well, I wanna travel in my early twenties.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:00]:
Well, you're gonna be in school a lot

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:01]:
Yeah.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:02]:
For all of that time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:03]:
Like, I wanna take, like, 2 years off and go travel in my early twenties. You definitely could do that. 100%. You can do that. You can take 2 years off and go. You're probably not gonna do that because

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:12]:
You have to study.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:13]:
You have to study.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:13]:
It's very competitive and you have to study a lot. Right.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:16]:
Exactly. That's probably not the right path.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:17]:
And you won't have money because you're gonna be in debt.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:19]:
This is the massive caveat. If your young adult, if your child is willing to be honest and candid in these conversations, this will help them 100%.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:29]:
Because you as a family will know that that is the path. It's peace of mind of knowing, yes, we have to do that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:34]:
You'll do this. And you'll say, okay, well, yeah, orthodontist is the path for you because we've laid out everything that you need and everything that you want in your life. And we've gone through the job inventory. We've seen that you are aware of a lot of jobs. We went through the vocational creativity and you've thought of even more jobs. And even through thinking about all of these jobs and going through all of the needs and wants and everything like that, we still landed on the same job that you said when we started the book. And that is working. That is worth the $50 price tag as of this recording, but as of the launch, it'll be $70 100%.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:08]:
If this book did one thing, which is your child started said, I want to be an orthodontist. And by the end of it, they're like, yep. 100%. I know now that being an orthodontist is going to help me build the life I want. Is this going to help me reach all of my goals? That one thing is worth the price of this for sure. A 100 times over because you know now. Okay. Done.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:28]:
Let's go.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:29]:
And you're sure. And now you go find out the best local way grants, scholarships that you go find now things that help you on that path, which are extremely individual to every single child.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:38]:
Which is what most young adults go through. Like, this is literally what we experience on a daily basis. Well, I wanna be a marketing manager or I wanna be an orthodontist. And then when we put it down, like, oh, no, no, no. You just wanna make a lot of money.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:48]:
Yeah. You just wanna make money or you wanna have a certain kind of schedule, whatever.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:50]:
Just saying that you wanna make a lot of money, but you don't know what you don't know. You don't know that there are easier ways

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:55]:
or other ways to make money that fit more of your needs

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:58]:
and you just don't know about them. And so that's why we are helping you out here. And if that's it, then yes, 100%. This is worth it. Even if your child is like, I think I want to be this. It won't help you figure out how to do it, but but it will figure out whether or not that thing will actually help them build the life they want. I believe if they go through this process, they are going to be much more satisfied with their life outcomes and with their work slash life, because they went through this and they figured that out.

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:26]:
And you thought through it as a family and you go, all right, that's what we're going to do then. And you fully informed your full understanding of what you're doing and why you're doing it. And the last part of this is part of the reason I believe that this individual messaged me about this was because the mom, this is not the outcome she wanted. What she wanted was to convince her not to do that because she doesn't think for whatever reason. Right? Parents that know that their kids can do that are not super worried about that. They know that, like, right now, my kid can buckle down and and do that for however long. Obviously this mom is concerned that maybe that's not the case.

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:57]:
When you're saying that's not the case, you're saying that she doesn't have the ability to become an orthodontist. What are you saying?

Hannah Maruyama [00:39:02]:
The mom obviously doesn't think that that's a good bet for her being able to do it. Otherwise, she wouldn't be too worried about it. If she thought that she could actually do it, she probably wouldn't be too concerned about it. That's what I think. As her mother who knows her and raised her, she thinks it's too high risk. And part of the reason I'm sure she thinks that is because she's going to be on the hook for that. She's going to have to co sign the loans. And that is an entirely different thing.

Hannah Maruyama [00:39:22]:
And this is something that we've recently seen comments about this too, where people are like, what about the loans? What about not co signing the loans? So I'm going to say something right now. Again, desperately needs to be said that nobody will tell you don't co sign the loans. Don't do it. So many parents are feeling like they have to co sign loans. And when they do that, the amount that colleges will come for you, they'll come for your retirement. They will come for your house. They absolutely will. They will slowly, slowly, slowly.

Hannah Maruyama [00:39:45]:
They'll bleed your kids dry and they will come for your retirement account. You're going to be liquidating your 401 ks. You're going to be taken out a HELOC on your house to try to pay for a bachelor's degree that's taken 6 years to get. And that's what I'm sure this parent was really concerned about. You see that in your future, do not cosign those loans. Do not do it. I don't care what your friends say. I don't care what your family says.

Hannah Maruyama [00:40:03]:
Shame on you. No. Absolutely not. This is bleeding a generation of people dry. And parents who are looking at the cost of college, if you are not 99% sure that your child is able to complete that educational track to get a legal license, to do something like medicine, do not co sign their loans. That's tough love, but you have to do it for yourself, for your child, because when your child needs to be bailed out, if they don't have that in them to finish it, you're going to have to do that. And you don't want to actually be the one that's liable for the loans.

Ryan Maruyama [00:40:33]:
A one step further as well as, I mean, you could just not do the FAFSA and just don't fill it out.

Hannah Maruyama [00:40:38]:
Don't fill it out.

Ryan Maruyama [00:40:38]:
And right now, when this video is going to come out and it is right during that deadline, if you don't agree with it, stop filling it out. And the thing is, is the pushback that we get from that is you're not being supportive. You're basically telling your child that you don't support their life. There are other ways to be supportive.

Hannah Maruyama [00:40:53]:
You don't have to support your child by taking on bankruptcy exempt loans. That is not the only way to support your child in the career. Help them find an entry level job.

Ryan Maruyama [00:41:00]:
That's exactly what I was about to say, which is you could just tell them, like, look, I can't afford it.

Hannah Maruyama [00:41:04]:
Or help them pay rent or help them buy a place to live instead.

Ryan Maruyama [00:41:07]:
Even if you can't afford it, I just don't agree with this, so I'm not gonna do it. But here's what I do agree with or here's how I think this is gonna happen. Here's what I'll help you do. And then you lay out your plan that I think is totally on the table is exactly what you said, which is help them find an entry level role in whatever industry that they're trying to go into. And if it requires a degree actually, being a doctor, just to be clear, the license is what requires the degree because they need to get the degree so that they can sit for their licensing exams and so that they can pass their licensing exams. They're going to need a degree. What you can tell them is I will help you find a part time job that you can do while you are going to college. That is what we're gonna do.

Ryan Maruyama [00:41:52]:
You can take out loans personally. You're an adult now. You can take on those loans, but I suggest you work. And here we go. And let's do your resume. Let's just go over interview stuff. And that's how you can be supportive.

Hannah Maruyama [00:42:00]:
This is the last thing I'll say about this. You're not supportive if you don't co sign loans that are bankruptcy exempt for your child to learn whatever 17 year old thing that they wanna learn at college is ridiculous. And it's because the colleges are greedy businesses and they want your money and they want you to not ever be able to get out of paying them. And they want your kids money and they want your kid to never be able to get out of paying them. They want to upsell your kid a master's degree and and keep them there as long as possible and put them in as much debt as possible because they don't care about the outcome.

Ryan Maruyama [00:42:28]:
As we've talked about before, it goes to colleges and us really respecting them as marketers.

Hannah Maruyama [00:42:35]:
As corporations. Really. As head funds.

Ryan Maruyama [00:42:37]:
As marketers, because I mean, I wish that my products and my services, I wish that it made you feel like shit. If you didn't buy my service,

Hannah Maruyama [00:42:48]:
it's called fear of loss,

Ryan Maruyama [00:42:50]:
because if you don't buy this, then you're a shit person and you're a parent. Oh, you don't support your child's future. You must buy this. I wish you felt that way about my product. Please buy more of my stuff. I respect colleges for that. They are big marketers and they captivated generations. Shameless marketers.

Ryan Maruyama [00:43:08]:
They captivated generations of people and did that good for you. But us as consumers, we have to realize, oh, okay. Got it. Why do I feel that way? It's because we've been told that this is what supporting your child looks like.

Hannah Maruyama [00:43:21]:
Which is without question, sign on the dotted line. And it's not. I'm just going to share a story for my own life. So I moved out when I was 18 and I was working full time. Some people do know my story, but I was dual enrolling. So my junior and senior year of high school, I was fully enrolled at a local university and I was on a Pell Grant in Georgia. They have that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:43:40]:
It's federal, I think.

Hannah Maruyama [00:43:41]:
Is it federal? There's a HOPE scholarship, I think, too. That's a Georgia specific one. And so they pay a little bit too. And I was paying that. I was working full time though at the time. And then I decided to break out of college. And so I was living on my own with roommates. I had roommates.

Hannah Maruyama [00:43:55]:
I highly suggest this. And this is something that someone recently just said on TikTok too. How are you going to make lifelong friendships and get into a different environment and foster independence? And I'm like, by moving out of your house. All of those things that you just described, I have them in spades. I never felt like my parents weren't supportive necessarily because my parents did help me. The way that my parents supported me and helped me grow into an adult was they paid my health insurance. That was literally how they supported me. At 18 years old, I was paying all of my bills.

Hannah Maruyama [00:44:21]:
I was paying my cell phone. I was paying gas and insurance, everything, except for my health insurance. I had bought my car from my parents. Obviously, they gave me a deal. It was a used old Honda, and I paid my parents to let me have this little Honda Accord. And that was how my parents supported me. I was very fortunate to be able to buy a reliable used car for my parents. It was 3 times used by the time I bought it, but still.

Hannah Maruyama [00:44:41]:
And that was how my parents supported me. They helped me. They let me buy reliable transportation from them, and then they kept me on their health insurance. And that was how my parents supported me. Everything else I worked, I just worked. And that is independence. That is adult friendships. That is learning different skills.

Hannah Maruyama [00:44:59]:
That is all of those things. And so you can support your child without co signing loans to send them to college. There are multiple ways to support your children. If you're looking for actionable ways to do that, then helping them by saying, Hey, if you find roommates, I'll pay part of your rent to take the pressure off you while you were waiting out on your own. Hey, I will cover your health insurance. If that's all you can do. Right? If you're working and they're covered through your job till they're 26, just pay their portion of that. If you can pay one bill of theirs, one big bill of theirs for a year or so, once they move out to help them transition, that is how you support them.

Hannah Maruyama [00:45:31]:
You do not have to co sign loans to do that. And for most Americans, that's a reasonable thing to do for a lot of people. You can help them with one big bill for a little while, where they get on their own 2 feet. That's how you support them as they go out on their own.

Ryan Maruyama [00:45:43]:
That was Obamacare, right? Like Obamacare changed that. And that was in our time that happened.

Hannah Maruyama [00:45:48]:
I think they did that to increase the amount of students though, because it's longer if you're still a student. And I think that was actually a very covert way to increase the amount of people going to grad school. I don't

Ryan Maruyama [00:45:57]:
think it's longer if you're a student. It's, I think it's unquestionable to 26. No?

Hannah Maruyama [00:46:00]:
I don't think so. It's a longer you can stay on your parents' health insurance as long as you're a student. Yeah. I'm pretty sure.

Ryan Maruyama [00:46:04]:
Isn't it just till 26? I'm pretty sure it's just till 26.

Hannah Maruyama [00:46:06]:
No, no. It's 26. If you're not a student, you can stay in your parents' health insurance. If you're a student. It's on purpose. It's very nice.

Ryan Maruyama [00:46:12]:
26. If you're a student?

Hannah Maruyama [00:46:13]:
No, there's 26 period. And it's longer if you're a student. I'm 95%. We'll look it up. People will look into it. I'm pretty sure I'm right though.

Ryan Maruyama [00:46:19]:
But if you're listening to this, leave a comment, let us know how wrong we are, but I'm sure that at 26 without being a student, like, I know that because that was my life. And I'm pretty sure that it came out when I was already an adult too. I think I had 1 year where I

Hannah Maruyama [00:46:33]:
You were on your own?

Ryan Maruyama [00:46:34]:
I think so.

Hannah Maruyama [00:46:35]:
I think I did 2.

Ryan Maruyama [00:46:37]:
I don't think so because you're younger than me. The timeline doesn't make sense. Anyway, I don't know. I will look it up. And it might have been just as I turned 18, it changed, and I didn't have to do that or something like that. But it like, for me, it was, like, immediately. For you, you would have had some time because it was immediate for my life. And you're a bunch of years younger than me.

Ryan Maruyama [00:46:54]:
I would say for a lot of people, but the way that I think about it is if they move out, you were saying like for a lot of people, it's it's a very reasonable way to help and support them, like picking up a bill. Obviously, some people can't do it and all that stuff, but if they move out and they're not sucking those resources that it takes to support them in the house, then the math might math out basically that you keep them on in your family plan.

Hannah Maruyama [00:47:17]:
I actually think it's opposite. If your child stays home, this is my controversial opinion. I'm sure a lot of people won't like this, but if it's the flip side, if they stay with you, then you are covering a big bill. So they should actually have to contribute to your household. I think that's a huge thing because by letting them stay there, you are taking on a big bill. And so I think it's important for them to learn independence for them to contribute to the household. Actually, if they stay in your house, if that's how you help them with their big bill, they should pay their other bills. That's what I think, unless you have the finances to cover that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:47:44]:
Yeah. And that was pretty much it for today. Yeah. Let us know about the Obamacare and the rules and everything like that. Vowed it in the comments, YouTube, Spotify. Before we go ask that degreefree.co, if you want to get your question answered and then dfwreviews.degreefree.co. And then I'll put all the links to everything that we talked about in the show notes. We actually had a bunch more to talk about, but this would be good because we have a lot more to talk about the next time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:48:10]:
It's just that we are out of time. Do you have anything else?

Hannah Maruyama [00:48:13]:
No. That's all I got.

Ryan Maruyama [00:48:14]:
Alright. Until next week, guys. Aloha.