What Makes a Winner and Other Lessons From Ryan’s Trip (DF#147)

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:00]:
If you don't have skill yet, then persistence will get you to that point. So if you don't have money, if you don't have skill, the thing that you have to use is persistence. Because it's the only thing available to you. It's the only thing that you can control with time and effort.

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:20]:
Aloha folks and welcome back to degree free. I'm really excited because we are in the studio again. We have found our groove, or at least hopefully we have found our groove. We are back and better than ever. You know, what's funny is I have been trying to make an episode about my trip to San Francisco for, like, a month now. But you've been busy, and basically, it's all your fault.

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:47]:
We're writing a book. Okay? And there's a lot to do. The recording of the episodes has just been getting pushed a little bit, but I think I'm no longer a guest cohost on this podcast. I think I'm back to being the actual cohost. So I plan to be here more often.

Ryan Maruyama [00:01:04]:
Well, I'm not gonna hold my breath. I will not hold my breath. We hope so. But anyway, glad to have you back. Glad to be in the studio. It's just like riding a bike. And let's talk about my trip to San Francisco. What should we start with first?

Hannah Maruyama [00:01:20]:
Okay. Ryan went on a big trip and on that trip he went to San Fran. He went to the bay and he saw somebody while he was in the bay. Do you want to guess who he saw?

Ryan Maruyama [00:01:33]:
Well, I've already talked about it. If you've listened to the last few episodes, I've talked about it before I met Drake Porter and it was great.

Hannah Maruyama [00:01:42]:
What's so crazy about you meeting him in person was that that entire friendship started from a TikTok comment. How crazy is that? You can make friends with people on the internet and then become friends with them in real life.

Ryan Maruyama [00:01:56]:
Yeah. It kind of felt like a blind date. Oh, wow. Like,

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:00]:
we're a little nervous.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:00]:
When we are like, oh, man.

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:02]:
I hope he likes me.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:04]:
It's like We've talked a bunch. We've texted a bunch. He's helped with a few things. You know, not podcast related, like, project related as you know. It's not like he's a stranger or anything like that.

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:14]:
It's kinda like same, like, lower stakes. But as Bradley Rice, who's another person that we've met through the Internet and then met in person, that's such an interesting dynamic. Cause if you know that you're interested in the same things and you guys have talked about something that you have in common, which is why you connected online somewhere and then you meet them in real life. And you're like, Woah, this is crazy. Would you say it's pretty meta?

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:34]:
All right. So I'm not going to start there, even though you've asked about that. What I'm going to start is I was actually in San Francisco when they had GDC, which is the game developers conference, which is the largest game developer conference in the world. I didn't know that prior to it. It was just so happened that I was in San Francisco at that time. That'll put dates on. I mean, if somebody wants to look up when GDC was this year, that'll tell you exactly when I was there. I met a bunch of people that were a part of very large games.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:07]:
I, in fact, checked these people, but they were saying, and this is the game that I work on. And I was just like, wow. Those are big games.

Hannah Maruyama [00:03:14]:
That's how you know. Because it was like, yeah. Sure is. Yeah. You didn't know this was going on. Right?

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:18]:
No. I had no idea.

Hannah Maruyama [00:03:19]:
I think you just went out to get dinner, and there were all these game developers. And you just went, oh, interesting.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:26]:
Yeah. So I was there to see a couple of friends do a few things. And one night I had by myself. I just did a few hours of work in the hotel. And then when I was done, I was like, well, I'm in San Francisco. I'm not gonna stay in the hotel room. And so I just walked around, Ubered to a couple of places that I just looked up on Google maps and everything. But, yeah, I mean, they were everywhere.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:46]:
There's these badge GDC badge wearing people they're everywhere. And so I met a few of them at different restaurants and different bars and we started talking. Yeah. It was

Hannah Maruyama [00:03:57]:
interesting. It's cool when you're traveling because when people go to those conferences, they're expecting to meet a bunch of different people and talk about whatever they do. So it's always interesting when you're traveling somewhere and there are a bunch of people there for some sort of work event or conference or convention, and you can just go, Hey, what's that badge about? What are you doing here? And then usually they'll just give you their whole life story because they're there to meet other people and specifically talk about whatever they care about. And that's why they're there. That's a cool way to meet people.

Ryan Maruyama [00:04:21]:
We actually haven't talked too much about this GDC thing. So this is actually interesting. Unlike what that YouTube comment said that we did last week or the week before you're interviewing your wife. Like, anyway, this is another testament to we don't really talk about these types of things in our regular life. I mean, we do, but not this. I didn't talk about my trip that much, actually. The GDC, exactly what you said is what happened, which is I walked into these bars and they were all wearing badges, and I don't know anybody. I don't have any friends.

Ryan Maruyama [00:04:54]:
My friends are not there with me that night. Well, I can either sit here or stand here by myself or I can ask

Hannah Maruyama [00:05:01]:
Make friends.

Ryan Maruyama [00:05:01]:
Yeah. I can talk to them. And sure enough, all of these guys are in pitching mode. All of these guys are in

Hannah Maruyama [00:05:07]:
I wanna tell you what they're doing and why they're doing it and what how much money they're making and all that stuff. Yeah. It's a perfect environment.

Ryan Maruyama [00:05:14]:
For me, personally, it was perfect because, well, I just don't like to talk that much, which is interesting. Well, I run a podcast.

Hannah Maruyama [00:05:22]:
Ryan does not actually like strangers very much.

Ryan Maruyama [00:05:24]:
Not at all. Just leave me alone. If you guys see me in the street, leave me alone. I'm not.

Hannah Maruyama [00:05:33]:
I just wanna know you're there, but just not where I am.

Ryan Maruyama [00:05:37]:
They were talking and they were telling me about, you know, what they're working on. And this is my company. There were a bunch of people that actually ran startups just around the video game space as well. That was really intriguing because I never, as a casual player of video games and as somebody who's played heavily in my teen years, like, really heavily, I didn't know the jobs around it. Right. The vocational creativity that we talk about all the time. I didn't know the jobs that made those things possible. What was crazy was walking around.

Ryan Maruyama [00:06:14]:
I had my other degree free hat on and it just degree free. It's the gray one with the black letters. And it's just huge across the top and people stopped me and they were like, are you bragging about not having a degree?

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:30]:
Yes.

Ryan Maruyama [00:06:31]:
Yeah. No, I was just like, yeah. Yes. And then other people came up to me and they're like that word degree freeze. I like your hat, man. That's my wife. Oh, wow.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:42]:
That's the dream.

Ryan Maruyama [00:06:43]:
They had no context to it.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:45]:
That's such a testament to the power of language.

Ryan Maruyama [00:06:47]:
Yeah. But they read the 2 words put together in that order and they were like degree free. Yeah. That makes sense. That's me. Anyway, that was really cool. What I wanted to get to about the video game stuff was that I specifically, I met 2 people. I don't want to say their names because I don't know how high up in that video game they are, but they are a part of a massive, massive video game.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:09]:
I was talking to them. We were talking about video game design, that these guys were are video game designers. And one of them has been with that video game since the very, very beginning. And the other one joined a few years ago. And I'm talking to them and I'm thinking I'm picking their brain like you couldn't imagine because I just wanna know about all this stuff. And we're talking about video game design and also talking to them about, once again, my hat. My hat's a conversation starter, and they're like, are you bragging about not having a degree? Whatever, whatever. I was like and I kinda tell them what we do.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:41]:
And I'd asked about video game design and what you need to do to get into that industry. And both of them were like, you don't need a degree for this. You don't need to go to school for this. And in fact, maybe going to school is not the best thing. What you absolutely need is a portfolio of work. You need to design video games. That's what you need to do. You need to go out and do that thing.

Ryan Maruyama [00:08:02]:
The reason why they were saying maybe not going to school is a good thing. It had everything to do with the amount of time

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:07]:
that you would spend learning

Ryan Maruyama [00:08:09]:
it when you would have to build your portfolio anyway.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:12]:
This is such a thing to drive home for creatives because and I talk about this a lot. People don't know. We've never talked about it on this podcast. I was a decent artist in high school. Like I was decent at drawing. I got accepted into like a public charter arts high school, and I ended up accepted into like a public charter arts high school and I ended up painting. I did some commission paint work. If you get a degree, if you spend time in college getting a degree for something creative, oftentimes you do not come out with the type of portfolio you need to get work doing that thing, if that is your goal.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:41]:
And so it was interesting. I just had a comment on TikTok about this where a lady said, oh, my son wants to be a fashion designer. And she said, where's your, where's he need to go to school? And he doesn't. He needs to learn how to sew. That's what he needs to learn how to do. He needs to learn how to draw and he needs to learn how to sew. That's what he needs to do. And neither of those things require the purchase of a college degree.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:59]:
Go get a job at a tailor or an alteration shop or a bridal shop and learn how to do it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:09:03]:
I couldn't agree more. I asked 1 guy that was with them from the very beginning or at least very, very early with this video game. I said, hey, can you come on the podcast and talk about it? And he said, yes, but I don't know. I spent a month and I haven't followed up yet mainly because I don't have any time to schedule.

Hannah Maruyama [00:09:23]:
We have a backlog of podcast guests right now. We

Ryan Maruyama [00:09:25]:
gotta schedule. Well, it's difficult right now

Hannah Maruyama [00:09:27]:
for you. We

Ryan Maruyama [00:09:28]:
got a lot going on. It's difficult for you and me right now to sit down and schedule. It's super difficult for me to schedule with somebody else right now. We're pushing a lot of projects out, but anyway, I'm trying to get him on the record to come and share his knowledge about this industry.

Hannah Maruyama [00:09:43]:
So many people are interested in the animation and game design because it's so big.

Ryan Maruyama [00:09:46]:
It's one of those things that I think it's one of those industries that it's clearly play. What I think a lot of people think about it is that it's clearly fun. It's 100% leisure for the most part, unless you're a Twitch streamer or a kick streamer or competitive person. But for the most part, the consumers that are consuming it, it's completely leisure. Yeah. I think a lot of people wanna do it because it's a fun industry to be in. What's funny is the awkwardness. So just for those people listening, I am always hustling for you, the listener.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:22]:
I am literally always hustling to get guests onto this podcast in person, not in person. You name it. I do it. You have no idea how difficult it is to transition a conversation from, Oh man, we're doing, we're having such a great time. This is great. So you want to come to my

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:42]:
podcast, bro?

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:46]:
Yeah. So I have this thing I do sometimes with people. It's a podcast.

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:51]:
It's like asking somebody on a date.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:53]:
No big deal. And,

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:55]:
come tell me your life story for an hour.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:57]:
It's funny because my conversion rate, I'm telling you, but you don't really need to know this. I guess I'm telling the listener is that my conversion rate on these in person to podcast guest ratio is atrocious. It is absolutely, absolutely terrible.

Hannah Maruyama [00:11:17]:
Yeah. Probably because it's the medium. If you meet them online, they're likely to do a thing online. If you meet them in person, now you have to convert them to something on the internet.

Ryan Maruyama [00:11:26]:
Yeah. I regret not doing an in person podcast with Drake when I was there. I wish that I had made more time to do it in person podcast. You know, we could have just done it in my hotel room or something like that. You know, we didn't do it. It worked out. It was fun. And so I guess I would just transition it to talking about that first.

Ryan Maruyama [00:11:43]:
I will say I'll put a bowl on the, I work hard. So guys share review the podcast, do all those things, bigger this podcast gets the better guests we can get.

Hannah Maruyama [00:11:55]:
We have a list of big guests we'd like to have over time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:11:59]:
Anyway, I met up with Drake Porter. He picked me up in the city and we went to the META campus. The hat was crazy.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:06]:
Yeah. The I'm very jealous that you got

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:09]:
to go. It was awesome. It was really, really cool to see. I mean, we were walking down, like, main street or whatever. I don't really know what it was called. For all those people that have been there, you know exactly what I'm talking about. We were walking down Main Street, and I'm just looking around. I'm walking down.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:23]:
We were talking story. We were talking. And I just looked I was like, dude, this looks like Disneyland. And he's just like, well, funny you say that. The guy that designed Disneyland, like, designed this, and I was like, oh, well, he did a really good job.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:39]:
Yeah. When you were telling me about the campus, it was pretty crazy, pretty wild.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:42]:
Yeah. It was insane. I did wanna comment on what you were saying earlier and how crazy it is to network on TikTok or just in general online. I mean, of all places, that's where we first met. We did a couple of podcast episodes together. He helped us on a project. We've talked many times, we've texted many times, and then we finally met up in person. So, I mean, that was really, really crazy.

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:07]:
I mean, and it's just a testament to how quickly your life can change. Drake 3 years ago or so go back to the first episode. If for those that don't know who Drake Porter is, I should stop here, go back and listen to his episodes. I'll put the links to his episodes in the show notes degreefree.coforward/podcast, and you can get all of his backstory there. But 3 years ago or so, he got let go from his job when he was in the interview process with Meta and focus his efforts on getting hired at Meta. And here he is. Here he is giving me a tour of that place. Here I am.

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:42]:
I used to be a fireman, and here I am

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:44]:
Walking on the back of campus. Yeah.

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:46]:
Walking on the back of campus with this

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:47]:
Friend that we met on TikTok.

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:48]:
Yeah. Exactly.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:49]:
Isn't that crazy?

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:50]:
Yeah. And then another friend that I met up because I met up with a few friends there. Another friend that I met up with, I think it was 5 years ago or so, he moved. He had no job prospects or anything. He's originally from the bay, and he moved back to the bay. He ended up taking a coding bootcamp, got hired at one of those FAANG companies. He quit that FAANG company job. He went to go work at another company that you would know of is not, not as big as FANG, but he got paid more money at the other company.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:19]:
And then he quit to go work at another company. And now he's doing great.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:25]:
I remember that because that was the first time I'd ever heard of a bootcamp. Actually, that was the one. Cause back then that was like early days of those where they were becoming big. I mean, I know they existed, but I think it was coming more into the mainstream at the time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:39]:
I think that's more accurate, bootcamp. Now the default is that, oh, you went to a coding bootcamp

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:51]:
because it's so common,

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:52]:
but before prior 5 years ago or so it was like, oh, I went to a coding bootcamp. Oh, and then maybe it wasn't in the vernacular yet. And so maybe it was just, oh, what is that?

Hannah Maruyama [00:15:02]:
Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what I mean.

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:04]:
His story was crazy. Absolutely.

Hannah Maruyama [00:15:08]:
Yeah. His story is pretty wild too.

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:09]:
Yeah, absolutely insane. I've asked him before to come on the podcast. I mean, he has a degree. He actually did get a job in that field, but then he doesn't work in that field anymore. He, by his own admission now, at least now for his job, he's like, I don't need my degree to do my job. That's unnecessary. As far as how quickly things can change, I mean, this goes for everyone. Right? Like, young adults that are trying to figure out what to do after high school, career changes that need to move from one industry to another industry, entrepreneurs that are trying to start or grow their business.

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:43]:
If you just keep at it, your life will absolutely change in a matter of years. Like, I talked a little bit about a few short years ago, I was a fireman and at the beginning of this show, I was a fireman. If you go back to episode 1, I had baby face. I didn't have the beard.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:00]:
When I look at those early episodes, you look very young.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:03]:
Well, yeah. I mean,

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:04]:
we were,

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:04]:
yeah, we were, but then for me, it's the beard. Well, because I

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:09]:
You had to shave.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:10]:
I had to shave every day.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:11]:
Right. For the mask, for those of you who are wondering why. So

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:14]:
I was a fireman. I owned a local services based business. I never thought I'd be doing this. I never thought that I would be doing a podcast 4 years ago, you know, like just a few years before we started doing this. I never thought that we would be doing what we're doing right now. I mean, this was not even a business. I mean, it's literally, it was just an idea that we had. And just like, I don't know how to turn this into a business.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:39]:
And here we are.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:40]:
Yep. And here we sit still.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:42]:
It was really cool to be on the meta campus because it was crazy to see that it's possible to build things. People built that huge campus.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:54]:
And not that long of a time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:56]:
Yeah. In 20 years, people built that huge campus and the things that we use every single day. Put aside whatever you feel about Zuckerberg or Meta, Instagram, or whatever. Whatever you feel about the politics of it all and everything with these people are evil or I don't know, whatever you think. But just standing there, just looking at it like, man, this is crazy. Somebody built this. Mhmm. People built this.

Hannah Maruyama [00:17:19]:
Yes. In a very, very much, not a long time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:17:24]:
Yeah. So anyway, we talked about a bunch of things. We were basically together for the for like 4 or 5 hours, 4 or 5, 6 hours. We had a bunch of conversations. It was really good. It was awesome. But I wanted to hone in on one of the conversations that we had, where we were talking about doing hard things, losing jobs, and finding a new job, and he was saying it was possible. Doing hard things and finding a new job and getting a new job or starting in an industry, getting your first job out of high school that isn't, like, your typical retail or your typical services business, but rather industry food and beverage industry.

Ryan Maruyama [00:17:58]:
Anybody can do it, which I believe, but that's what we were talking about.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:02]:
I had a conversation like that too. It was when I first started going on podcasts and I was talking to somebody on their podcast and they just said, oh, you know, you did this, this, this, this, and this. I said, yeah, but anybody can do that. And that person did not share my philosophy. And they said, well, no, no, no. It's because they believe that they were special and that I was special. And I just don't hold that opinion. I don't hold that belief.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:23]:
That was an interesting worldview to come across in the wild because you and I just don't think that way. We just don't believe that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:18:29]:
Well, I'll tell you right now, actually that in a moment's weakness, I said something when he was saying like, anybody can do it. I said, this is a moment of weakness, which is why I wanted to hone in on this. I'm about to go against exactly what you were talking about. I said, yeah, but you and Hannah are cut from the same cloth. Was talking to Drake and I was talking about you and I said, Drake and you are cut from the same cloth. You guys are winners. So it's easier for you. And as soon as I said it, I was like, that's not true.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:59]:
You don't believe that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:19:00]:
Yeah. That's not true. Yeah. Or rather maybe there's a kernel of truth there. And so I thought, okay, well, what makes a winner? Really? What makes someone a winner? And this was a tough decision. It's a split decision so many ways, but when I really boiled it down, I said a winner is someone who no matter what just doesn't give up. Just doesn't give up. If you never give up, you will win.

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:29]:
It's funny. Cause I feel like I know for myself and I'm sure a lot of other people feel this way, but there's all those meme pages and all these accounts that are just, you know, hustle. Just don't give up. Just don't quit. Just do just blah blah blah blah. Whatever insert Gary Vaynerchuk type, you know.

Ryan Maruyama [00:19:43]:
David Goggins.

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:43]:
David Goggins. Like, you know, just get hard. Just do it. Just do it. And I'm like, I have an allergy to that when I view it in the wild. Oh my god. Just stop. That's so irritating.

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:53]:
It's so obnoxious. It's so unhelpful. But as somebody who did not have that type of mindset, actually, I don't think I've had that my whole life. I just had the, I could try to do that. It's not a perseverance thing. It's more of a just, maybe I'll yeah. Sure. Like, I think audacity is a better word.

Hannah Maruyama [00:20:09]:
Like, yeah. Sure. I can do that. It's not, I just keep going. I just keep going. It's not really that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:20:14]:
And that's great. Thank you for sharing that. But at the very end of it all, is that the action that you did was that you kept trying and that's amazing. Thank you for sharing the feeling that you had and the thought process of it. And that's important for sure. I never would have guessed that, but the result that the world sees is that you just keep trying at the end of the day. That's all that matters. What you tell yourself.

Ryan Maruyama [00:20:38]:
I mean, obviously that matters as well, but all the world sees is that you just don't give up.

Hannah Maruyama [00:20:43]:
It's been a journey for me getting into the mindset stuff, because like I said, I have an allergy to that, to the slogans, to the buzzwords, to the just do, just whatever. But at the same time, sometimes I think that's what people need to hear because it really does all come down to your mindset. It comes down to, I see comments all the time that people are just like, Oh, well, I saw one the other day on a clip of you and I talking about, yeah. Just send your resume in anywhere. And so I'm sorry. Somebody just said, yeah. You just just fold your resume into a paper plane and throw it into the Grand Canyon. Maybe there's a hiring manager down there.

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:20]:
Sorry. It's just the visual of it's really funny. I just commented on that. I just responded that comment and said, I'm sure that mindset's really helped you exclamation point. My point at the conclusion of that is what if there was a hiring manager at the bottom of the Grand Canyon? If I didn't throw my resume there, they would never see it. Right. That is a mindset and it's hard for me to step out and go, oh, I guess that is kind of just the yeah, just do it. Just throw it.

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:45]:
The mindset is just do it. Even though I feel like mindset as a whole is not a super helpful thing to be like, yeah, just change your mindset. But really it is more the action. It's not so much the mindset, but if you just start trying things, you don't necessarily have to have the mindset to do that, but you do have to just start actually taking the actions.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:04]:
That's exactly what I was saying. This is literally exactly what I was saying, which is, it doesn't matter what the mindset is. I'm not focusing on the mindset.

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:10]:
Just

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:11]:
I'm focusing on the actions. Don't give up. Yeah. That's it. And it's such fortune cookie wisdom. I have that same allergy that you do as well. Like, okay, well, that's not helpful. Like how do I win? Well, look at what you're doing now.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:23]:
Whatever it is that you're doing now, stop doing it because whatever it is that you're doing now got you to where you are. And if you wanna change if you wanna change anything in your life, then just go do other actions. But just don't give up and just keep changing and keep changing. And the reason why winners, quote, winners end up making life or whatever hard thing look easy is because they get back up quicker than you do after their defeats. I'm not talking about you. I'm not talking about them. Perverbial. Yeah.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:54]:
Not yeah. The proverbial you like anybody. Winners, they get up quicker than you do after defeats. After they take their L's, they get back up and they get back at it. Ain't nothing to it, but to do it. And that's what they do. And if you listen to Drake's story, he had so many L's in his story. He had so many L's along the way.

Ryan Maruyama [00:23:19]:
Like he lost his job. He got fired. I mean, he came from a disadvantaged background, but none of that stopped

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:25]:
him. I wrote down on a post it note in my office the other day. I'm going to try to share here, but part of it was because of you going to San Francisco and seeing Drake. And this kind of made me, made me have this thought. And that thought was that there are 3 types of people who the rules do not apply to, who people will either break, remove, bend, or ignore rules for in life. The first type of people are rich people because they have money, obviously. Right? Money, resources, capital, whatever. The second type of person that people will break, bend, remove, or ignore rules for are people who are very skilled.

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:03]:
People that are very good at what they do. They'll just be, oh, well, you're just really amazing at whatever that is. You don't have to be rich, but you have to be really, really good in order to get people to change things so that they can have you do whatever it is they want you to do. And the 3rd type of person that as you're telling this story, I realized Drake falls into this third category is people who are very persistent. And because eventually you will just wear people down. You just wear people down and that's what he did. He just wore it down enough to get where he was trying to go. He just put in the time and he put in the effort.

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:35]:
And as you said, he just kept going.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:36]:
I think you could just boil it down to the third one because in order to become skilled in order to become rich, you need to be persistent. Yeah. Not all rich people. Sure. I mean, they're,

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:45]:
but skilled people for sure.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:46]:
There are people that inherit their wealth.

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:48]:
But skilled people. Yeah, for sure. You're absolutely right.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:50]:
It's persistent.

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:51]:
If you don't have skill yet, then persistence will get you to that point. So if you don't have money, if you don't have skill, the thing that you have to use is persistence because it's the only thing available to you. It's the only thing that you can control with time and effort.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:07]:
Hey there. I hope you're enjoying this episode of the degree free podcast. At degree free, we wanna help everyone thrive and succeed without needing a college degree. And the only way to truly reach everyone is with your help. If you're getting value out of this episode or if this is your second, 3rd, or 4th episode that you're tuning into, if you could just ship this to a friend, just click that one button and share it with someone in your contacts or on your stories. It would mean the world to us. And more importantly, get our message out to more people who need help getting out of their current situation. If you could do that right now, that would mean a whole lot.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:43]:
The reason why I thought that he was a winner was because when talking to him and he was telling me his story in the podcast, he never focused on any of the L's that he experienced. Like he just never talked about it. I mean, he talked about them, but he didn't focus on them. Really. He just talked about the effort that he put in to do other things and then like, okay, well, I just have to focus on this thing, get that done. And then I knew that if I got that done or a thought if I got that done, then this would happen, then this would happen, and then this would happen. And I was thinking for myself, like, I'm not a winner. I mean, not that attitude.

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:21]:
Why don't you screw your resume down at the bottom of the Grand Canyon?

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:25]:
Not with that attitude. No. But, I don't self identify as one, and I'm I'm sure that Drake doesn't self identify as a winner either, but I don't have what you 2 have, or at least once again, not with that attitude, but I'm just being honest. I don't have that. Oh, well maybe I can do that thing. I think I'm more similar to most people. Most people don't think that. In my experience, I was just talking from my own experience.

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:50]:
Like, then the people that I know and the people that I've met, most people don't have that audacity to just be like, yeah, I could learn that. Or, yeah, I can do that. Especially when it comes to careers and jobs and learning skills, specifically skills to then get a job. You know, a lot of people are, don't think that and they don't do it. But Drake, if you listen to his story and you remember, he's like, if I wanted to be a doctor, like I can think of 10 ways or I'll figure out 10 ways to be a doctor without going to college.

Hannah Maruyama [00:27:21]:
I have never forgotten that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:27:22]:
Like, I'm a go like, I think maybe I'm gonna go to the Amazon rainforest. I was like, I'm gonna go in the middle of nowhere and become a doctor there, but I'm gonna be a doctor. Like, I don't have that. And that's what I'm talking about.

Hannah Maruyama [00:27:33]:
It's the way around.

Ryan Maruyama [00:27:34]:
Yeah. So maybe that is a mindset thing. So I, maybe I'm getting 2 things conflated. Maybe what you were talking about is right. I don't know. I wrote a bunch of this down, but maybe, maybe I'm talking about mindset thing.

Hannah Maruyama [00:27:43]:
Maybe it is because I I remember when he said that really clearly, because it was when he said that, I said, yeah, that's exactly how I feel. That's exactly how I feel.

Ryan Maruyama [00:27:50]:
And I'm not cut from that same cloth and look which one of us went and got a degree. Look at which one of us went and got a degree because that's the thing to do. Like, that's what you do. Like, that's the box that you check. Like I say all the time, like, that was the only line required on all of these job descriptions and all of these job listings. It says college degree required, whatever degree it was, finance or economics, business, whatever degree is required. And I saw that and I'm like, yeah, I'm more of a check the box kind of guy instead of I'm going to think out literally outside of this box.

Hannah Maruyama [00:28:26]:
I want to talk to the listeners really quick as an, as a little aside here to something to highlight for you is that if a degree is not legally required to do the job that you are applying for, the degree requirement is a request. Ignore it at will. Ignore it if you want the job apply anyway. It's just something I'm going to say. And I've gotten into this with people on TikTok. They're like, well, some jobs do require it. I said, if it's not legally required, it's not required. It's requested because they can give the job to somebody who is degree free.

Hannah Maruyama [00:28:54]:
If they can give the job to somebody who's degree free, anybody can get that job.

Ryan Maruyama [00:28:59]:
The argument there is that like, well, not at my company. Sure. It might be true for that company. The reason why I'm bringing that up of why it might be true for your company, but how many jobs does your company have?

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:12]:
A thousand.

Ryan Maruyama [00:29:12]:
Like when I'm making

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:13]:
all the jobs, but

Ryan Maruyama [00:29:14]:
if all the jobs

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:15]:
just go to apply to another company,

Ryan Maruyama [00:29:16]:
Go to another company.

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:17]:
Yeah. There's, it's okay. There's one next door and next door and next door and next door.

Ryan Maruyama [00:29:21]:
And that, that goes to exactly what we're talking about is be persistent. So by definition, like if you look at winners, I'll get off of this in a second. If you're looking at winners, there's survivorship bias. The people that you see that are successful, that are, quote, winners and whatever it is that they're doing, there's 10 X more of them, at least that failed to get there than the people that did actually get there. But in a way it's good that we don't see the names of the failed businesses or the people that failed. Then we can focus on the people that have made it. Why I've just been thinking about it a lot and thinking about survivorship bias because that's the mindset that I would approach this from. If I was hearing this for the first time, if I was a listener of the podcasts, like when I first started listening to podcasts, I definitely didn't have this mindset at all.

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:15]:
And when I heard this, if I heard this, I'd be like, yeah, well, he's a winner and I'm not a winner. So I'm just going to write this off. I think it's good thing that even though there is like survivorship bias, even that it is heavily biased to the people that have made it. If you look at all the billionaires out there that are famous and they're like, yeah, they're one out of literally 1000000 something people, 100 of millions of people. They're one out of a 100000000 people. But it's good because then we can look at them and

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:45]:
figure out how to get there.

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:46]:
Exactly.

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:47]:
Yeah. Not that there's not wisdom in unpacking and studying and doing case studies on failure. There definitely is. There's a lot of value in that, but you have to know what success looks like to try to get. And then when I say success too, I mean success in whatever you're trying to accomplish in your life. If success to you is having a little paid off house with a garden and dog, then find somebody who's got that and do whatever they do. Don't do a case study and try to follow somebody who failed to do that thing. Right.

Hannah Maruyama [00:31:13]:
You always want to try to follow the people who you're trying to get where they are.

Ryan Maruyama [00:31:19]:
If you did look at those names of failed businesses or failed attempts at trying to get to a different job or trying to get to a different career, trying to start your first career, whatever it is, if you did have those names, it would I think a large asterisk would need to be there or at least a large parenthesis. You know, this business failed or this business owner failed rather. Like, this entrepreneur failed. This person failed at trying to do this job right now or they haven't succeeded here, here, and here. If you look at us and you look at degree free, degree free is our 4th to 7th

Hannah Maruyama [00:31:59]:
Business?

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:00]:
The number always changes Yeah. Depending on what we're counting as a business. But, yeah, 4th to 7th business. The reason why it changes so much is because in our minds in my mind, we had a lot of stabs. We've taken a lot of shots on goal as far as being entrepreneurs and being business owners for us. If you want to count all of the small small little things of all the things that we've tried to build a product around and sell like product or service and sell every single thing that we've done. Yeah. It's probably like 7, 8, something like that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:28]:
If you're really thinking about, like, a meaningful amount of money, there's probably 4, maybe.

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:34]:
Yeah. I'd say I'd say 4.

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:35]:
Yeah. Maybe 4

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:36]:
or 5.

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:36]:
5, something like that. But if every little thing is 7, 8, 9, because we've tried a lot.

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:42]:
Yeah. And sometimes just for kicks because we do that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:45]:
But the thing is, the people that are listening to this, like, do you know the names of those businesses?

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:49]:
No. They do not. Why? Because they don't matter.

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:52]:
Doesn't matter. Have you ever heard of them? People listening to this?

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:55]:
Yeah. If you know our other businesses, go ahead and tell them to us.

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And there's one that's really easy to find.

Hannah Maruyama [00:33:02]:
Yes.

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:02]:
There's one that's really easy to find. But the other ones, if you found any of the other ones and you Congrats. Tell me the names and you tell me the other things, like, tell me the products that we sold, that would be crazy.

Hannah Maruyama [00:33:13]:
Yeah. That would be crazy.

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:14]:
That'd be crazy. But, yeah, it doesn't matter. We're working on this now. This is the thing that we're doing now, and this might fail. More than likely it will.

Hannah Maruyama [00:33:21]:
Not more than likely. There's 50.50 chance. That's how businesses work. Small businesses.

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:26]:
I guess. I was just more saying, like, me as the operator.

Hannah Maruyama [00:33:29]:
Oh. If anything I run

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:31]:
this thing into the ground.

Hannah Maruyama [00:33:32]:
I'm gonna run this till the wheels fall off.

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:35]:
So that's a long way of saying to win the game, you just got to stay in the game. I mean, whatever it is, whatever game that it is that you're trying to win at, whether or not you're trying to be a product manager at one of these FAANG companies, whether or not you're trying to become a successful business owner, whether you're trying to be a video game designer, breaking into your first job right out of high school, trying to get on the right career path, trying to change from wrenching underneath a car into any other job that sits behind a desk.

Hannah Maruyama [00:34:09]:
Or trying to get out from the desk to renting the car.

Ryan Maruyama [00:34:11]:
Whatever it is, whatever winning the game looks like to you. It's all about just staying in the game. And it's just about doing it and getting, getting back up. And it is very much the actions. I mean, we kind of talked about both, right? I mean, mindset helps, but at the end of the day, it's all action. I mean, you just gotta keep getting up. And that's the difference between winners and losers and the people that make it look easy, quote, they only make it look easy because they've been failing and getting it more times than you. Eventually it becomes second nature.

Ryan Maruyama [00:34:45]:
They've been

Hannah Maruyama [00:34:46]:
Make a lot of mistakes.

Ryan Maruyama [00:34:47]:
And there is the very real possibility is that they could also just not care about failure as much as you do. It just doesn't affect them. It just rolls off their back much easier. I mean, that's a very real possibility as well.

Hannah Maruyama [00:35:00]:
I wonder if it's volume of mistakes. If you just do a bunch of things, you make a lot of mistakes, whereas people who are more careful don't make nearly as many mistakes. And so it's kind of chicken or the egg thing. But if you make a lot of mistakes, you don't really have time to dwell on them. And also they tend to matter less because you just make them all the time because you're just doing stuff. And so you make a mess all the time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:21]:
The more that you do, the more mistakes that you're going to have. Constantly. And then that goes to the whole Kobe or Michael Jordan. I'm not sure. Babe Ruth, we'll talk about. Of his time, Babe Ruth was the home run king. I mean, he was the GOAT. He was the best.

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:39]:
But while at the same time that he was the home run king, he also had the highest or one of the highest strikeout rates as well. He struck out the most. Never put a ball in play. Oh. He just struck out.

Hannah Maruyama [00:35:53]:
Because he was trying to hit homers. Because

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:55]:
he was trying to hit homers.

Hannah Maruyama [00:35:56]:
Interesting. I didn't know that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:57]:
Was it Kobe and Michael Jordan, one of the 2? Somebody YouTube comments somebody for this. When they were leading the league in points, they were also leading the league and missed shots.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:07]:
Just taking shots.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:08]:
Right. Exactly. And it's just Volume.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:11]:
Sports analogies are so good for life.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because it breaks it down. It makes it easy.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:15]:
Right. Right.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:16]:
Yeah. That was that. I am very, very excited that we got to talk about that. I think there's a couple of other things. I mean, I wrote down like a whole lessons learned thing. Most of it I can't talk about or don't want to talk about, but hopefully we can get a few of these guests on the podcast. Hopefully, Drake comes back soon. Our schedule is hopefully soon going to even out because we are super busy right now.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:44]:
And so I can get some of these guests in the door. What I wanted to do now was I wanted to go over. I read the apple podcast reviews and I have a couple of here that I wanted to read and go over.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:00]:
This is turning to my favorite segment of our podcast.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:04]:
Here we go. So this is from who played at?

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:12]:
Okay.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:14]:
Okay.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:15]:
Who who play that? You play that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:17]:
Yeah. Okay. Stop.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:18]:
We're done.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:18]:
Please stop.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:19]:
Alright. It's Wait, guys.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:21]:
It goes, Headline legit. They aren't trying to sell you anything. At least not from any of the episodes I've listened to so far. I get so tired of listening to podcasts with one goal to sell you something. But honestly, if they were selling something, I'd probably buy it because they are so authentic. They talk candidly about their experiences in different businesses. They've tried what has worked, what hasn't and give a lot of valuable advice. It's priceless, highly recommend.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:48]:
The only change I would make is that at times Ryan seems to behave as though he's superior to Hannah. He kind of overrides her sentences or subtly dismisses her input at times. All right. This amazing. It's a really good review. It's 5 stars and everybody, if you want your review featured on this podcast,

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:09]:
only 5 star reviews will get featured on this podcast. Yeah. Unless you're

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:14]:
1 star.

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:15]:
Maybe 1.

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:16]:
Unless you're 1 star, it's really good.

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:18]:
And we're really funny. We just our incentives that we just gave for reviews are a lot of whack. We're gonna ruin our stats.

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:25]:
Okay.

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:26]:
So Thanks. Who played that?

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:28]:
Yeah. Who played that? And thanks for the review. It really, really means a lot. Like it really, really means a lot. But I did want to address, I did want to address a few things because this was such a thoughtful message.

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:43]:
Yeah, it was. I mean,

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:44]:
it's such a thoughtful.

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:45]:
You can tell they listen.

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:46]:
And just a one, they they aren't trying to sell you anything. I've been very open with the fact that you and I have struggled to make this podcast a viable part of our business. This podcast has and continues to be funded by the Bank of Ryan and Hannah.

Hannah Maruyama [00:39:01]:
Yeah. We do it for kicks.

Ryan Maruyama [00:39:02]:
I'll be very honest. We help people start businesses and consult with other businesses for operations and marketing. And if I were advising, like, our own business, like, if I had hired us to consult for our own business, I would look at this. I would have stopped this podcast over a year ago because the amount of effort that it takes compared to the amount of economic value it brings in is really, really low.

Hannah Maruyama [00:39:25]:
Probably about twice a year. We have whiteboards all over our house and we pro and con out. Do we keep the podcast? And we just, and every single time, even with all of the, the whole of the cons and sometimes there'll be like one pro and Ryan specifically Ryan's love of this podcast and of this endeavor has kept it alive.

Ryan Maruyama [00:39:46]:
Yeah. So I'll go on a little bit of a tangent here about making sure to put our efforts in the right vehicle. Like I'll link the episode 135 in the show notes degreefree.co4/podcast, where I talked entirely of this concept about putting your efforts in the right vehicle. But I wanted to talk briefly about how we would do this analysis and how you can do it in your own life. So we're working super hard on this. For you, the listener, each episode from planning, researching, outlining, recording, editing, show notes, publishing, it takes about 10 man hours per episode.

Hannah Maruyama [00:40:24]:
At least.

Ryan Maruyama [00:40:24]:
At least. Like that's the bare minimum of what it takes per episode, but we only get a few 1,000 downloads per episode. I mean, sure. We're in the top, whatever, 1% or whatever.

Hannah Maruyama [00:40:37]:
Actually, I checked our I checked our chartable today. We're 29 in US podcast.

Ryan Maruyama [00:40:42]:
Yeah. But the chartable doesn't mean much. It's all about the download numbers and everything.

Hannah Maruyama [00:40:46]:
Right? Is the word you use?

Ryan Maruyama [00:40:47]:
Yeah. We do better than most podcasts ever that are out there, but we don't do as well as the top, top podcasts out there. 1, make sure to share this podcast with everyone, you know, do that now, press that little button and do that now. But in comparison, you, Hannah, you can make a TikTok in 2 hours. And I'm talking from, like, ideation to scripting, to creation, to subtitling, to editing, creating the video, to post it, to caption all of it. Like you could do, you could do all of that in 2 hours. And from that video, you could get a 1,000,000 plus views or 100 of thousands of views for 2 hours of work. And so when you think about it like that, do we work 5 times harder, 5 times harder, right? I mean, 2 hours for a TikTok and I think 2 hours is being very, very generous.

Hannah Maruyama [00:41:40]:
For how long usually?

Ryan Maruyama [00:41:41]:
Sometimes it takes 30 minutes.

Hannah Maruyama [00:41:43]:
Yeah. From Strongly about something.

Ryan Maruyama [00:41:44]:
Right. Exactly. So 2 hours to 10 hours, that's 5 X gets less than 90% of the visibility, like 99% if it goes to a million insane, even though we work crazy hard in this podcast. And I think the content is top notch. It doesn't matter because we're not putting our efforts in the right vehicle. Once you get this concept down, like you'll start seeing this everywhere in your life, or I'm just going on a tangent about that episode 135, just because it's such a powerful concept, and this is a really, really good example of this. Literally, what you and I are doing right now is a perfect example of working really hard. It's a perfect example if you listen to my story in that episode 135, like me working really hard washing dishes.

Ryan Maruyama [00:42:27]:
I wanted to retire by 40, so I worked really hard at being a dishwasher. Mhmm. Like, what is one of the things that you could almost guarantee would not happen If you become a dishwasher.

Hannah Maruyama [00:42:38]:
Retire by 40.

Ryan Maruyama [00:42:39]:
Retire by 40. That's pretty much guaranteed. Well, if you're applying for jobs and you realize that when you try to just apply to jobs that you think you can get in the door and you don't get in, even though you tailor your resume, reach out to people on LinkedIn, etcetera. Like maybe you just got to switch up your tactics here. Like maybe you got to do something completely different, even though you think that you're doing the right thing. Like, even though you think your efforts are in the right area

Hannah Maruyama [00:43:04]:
Maybe they're not.

Ryan Maruyama [00:43:05]:
Maybe they're not. And maybe

Hannah Maruyama [00:43:06]:
you need to change everything.

Ryan Maruyama [00:43:07]:
Exactly. Or it could be even vice versa. Maybe you're spamming your resume and you're not seeing results. Then you might have to switch things up and go more high touch, like go to LinkedIn.

Hannah Maruyama [00:43:17]:
Exactly. Go in.

Ryan Maruyama [00:43:17]:
Yeah, exactly. Whatever it is. Once you get the concept down, of, like, being in the right vehicle or putting your efforts behind the right things, you're gonna start seeing it everywhere. And that's how we would do that analysis for this podcast. And that's how I just did did the analysis that you and I do twice a year.

Hannah Maruyama [00:43:31]:
Or sometimes more.

Ryan Maruyama [00:43:32]:
Yeah. Or more.

Hannah Maruyama [00:43:33]:
If we're feeling frisky. Yeah.

Ryan Maruyama [00:43:34]:
Exactly. Like, hey.

Hannah Maruyama [00:43:35]:
You know what? I have, like, 10 minutes. You want to do a pros cons list

Ryan Maruyama [00:43:39]:
of the podcast? Yeah. And what's funny about that is like, I'm now going to not listen to our advice and keep going with this episode and keep doing the podcast, even though it makes no sense to do so. This is a perfect time to say a few months back, probably around the beginning of the year, Lisa reached out in the YouTube comments and she sent me an email and she almost single handedly saved this podcast for everyone. And Lisa,

Hannah Maruyama [00:44:01]:
I don't have to say, we love Lisa. I don't have to

Ryan Maruyama [00:44:03]:
say your last name, you know who you are and to know she was listening meant a lot to me. So thank you, Lisa. And for others that might have something to say, you can go over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review, write to review. You might be getting featured on the podcast.

Hannah Maruyama [00:44:20]:
You might

Ryan Maruyama [00:44:21]:
make it good. And if you have a question, if you want to ask us a question, go to ask.degreefree.co/question to ask us your question. We're going to do a Q and a episode very, very, very soon. So to support this podcast habit, We do have the degree free launch program. So like, as far as like selling things, who play that said, like we do have that We take 16 to 20 year olds and we make custom career roadmaps for them. We don't really talk about it that often on the show. We don't promote it that much.

Hannah Maruyama [00:44:52]:
We'll get better at that because we're tell some more stories of those going through the program and their parents and stuff. Cause it's getting extremely relevant to graduation coming up in the US.

Ryan Maruyama [00:45:01]:
Yeah. But one of the reasons why we don't promote it that much as well is because it's not relevant to all of our listenership, and we have a diverse listenership. And I wanna make sure that I get all of the information instead of this just turn into a podcast about us, like, hawking our crap.

Hannah Maruyama [00:45:16]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Maruyama [00:45:16]:
And people here

Hannah Maruyama [00:45:17]:
We never have on this podcast. We really don't do that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:45:20]:
Yeah. Or, I mean, I'm not above it. You know?

Hannah Maruyama [00:45:22]:
And then we're not saying we never will.

Ryan Maruyama [00:45:24]:
It's going to have to change. Like, we're going to have to start promoting things. Like, we're gonna have to start making money off of this thing eventually.

Hannah Maruyama [00:45:29]:
At some point.

Ryan Maruyama [00:45:30]:
Right. I mean, we can't just keep funding this into oblivion or forever. I mean, maybe we can, but I don't want to. Right. But anyway We'll

Hannah Maruyama [00:45:37]:
revisit it in the pros and consulates

Ryan Maruyama [00:45:39]:
in a couple of months. Anyway, the degree free launch program for those that have 16 to 20 year olds, you can apply degreefree.coforce/launch. There, we are actually coming out with a book for that same demographic of people. It is almost graduation now, and that is why we have not been able to

Hannah Maruyama [00:45:58]:
do things.

Ryan Maruyama [00:45:58]:
Yeah. And schedule a

Hannah Maruyama [00:46:00]:
set of books.

Ryan Maruyama [00:46:00]:
It's a set of workbooks that you can work through with your child and go over these things and

Hannah Maruyama [00:46:05]:
And go over what their life goals are and how to figure out what job options are going to work for them. We have been working extremely hard and having extremely long days working on this thing. Like we've been sitting out in front of our garage, editing until the sun goes down. We've just been it's been a haul. It's been a sprint. And Ryan and I are both really, really excited. We're trying extremely hard to get it out in time for people who are graduating, because that's a very pivotal time for a lot of people. And we can get it to seniors who aren't sure what they're going to do or rising juniors who have some time before they start the next year before summer.

Hannah Maruyama [00:46:41]:
And so we're trying to get that up in a timely manner for parents and young adults who are struggling with that decision in the college cliff right now.

Ryan Maruyama [00:46:49]:
Yeah. But, I mean, I don't even have, like, a ask for you. I I can't even I can't even point you to anywhere right now. So just We're

Hannah Maruyama [00:46:55]:
just telling you what's going on.

Ryan Maruyama [00:46:56]:
Yeah. Just make sure that you're subscribed. I guess if that's interesting to you, just make sure that you're subscribed. You can go to the.coforward/newsletter as well and sign up for our newsletter. It'll be there. And then we'll announce it on this podcast once we do have an official launch or preorder, that type of thing. But anyway, I digress. What I really wanted to get into.

Ryan Maruyama [00:47:12]:
I didn't really want to talk about all that. I needed to talk about the first part because the first part was so nice so that I could get into the thing that I really want to talk about. Let me quote this again for those at home quote. The only change I would make is that at times Ryan seems to behave as though he's superior to Hannah. He kind of overrides her sentences or subtly dismisses her input at times. All right. So this review is freaking fantastic until I just started catching strays. I just start catching strays over here.

Hannah Maruyama [00:47:49]:
I died reading this review. I laughed so hard.

Ryan Maruyama [00:47:51]:
I wanted an opportunity to defend myself.

Hannah Maruyama [00:47:54]:
Please come to the court.

Ryan Maruyama [00:47:55]:
Okay. 1.

Hannah Maruyama [00:47:58]:
Your honor, with respect, you weren't there.

Ryan Maruyama [00:48:01]:
1. This is valid input and I will try to do less of it. 2, I have to write this down. If you watch the YouTube video, I want you to read what I have prepared here because I.

Hannah Maruyama [00:48:10]:
He wrote his opening statement.

Ryan Maruyama [00:48:16]:
So 2, I think I think what oftentimes get misconstrued as dismissing or overriding is me attempting to clarify your point. You, and I'm talking to you, Hannah, and the strategy I use to deploy that is asking more penetrating questions.

Hannah Maruyama [00:48:34]:
Okay. I'm going to let you finish, but go to YouTube if you're not on YouTube. Ryan's mind works like this. My mind works like this. Ryan is the producer and the editor of this podcast and so he sometimes has to, for your clarity, because sometimes I get lost in my own points, Make sure that I am on track to conclude and tie a bow on the things I'm trying to explain and make sure that I'm actually accurately getting my point across to.

Ryan Maruyama [00:49:03]:
Yeah. It's not even so much the, as far as accurately getting your point across you and I pretty much agree on everything.

Hannah Maruyama [00:49:09]:
Yeah, we do.

Ryan Maruyama [00:49:09]:
If we, you and I pretty much agree on everything. Imagine if you tuned into this podcast, you, the listener, tune in to this podcast, and it was just a just a

Hannah Maruyama [00:49:16]:
Wow. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. 100%. Yeah. Absolutely.

Ryan Maruyama [00:49:20]:
Nothing about wow. What a brilliant idea, and you're so smart. Couldn't agree more. It would be incredibly boring or at least I think it would be incredibly boring. But the thing is, is that that's actually how this podcast would be because for the most part, broad strokes, you and I agree on a lot of things. I mean, we're business.

Hannah Maruyama [00:49:38]:
That's why we're doing this.

Ryan Maruyama [00:49:39]:
Yeah.

Hannah Maruyama [00:49:39]:
Unless we wouldn't be doing

Ryan Maruyama [00:49:41]:
exactly. And so for me, what I try to do is I just try to break that up by asking clarifying questions and usually in the form of like a negative question or negative or clarifying question, like, what do you mean? I don't understand what you're saying. And a lot of times when I just say, I don't understand what you're saying. I am just trying to be the audience and maybe the audience doesn't understand what you're saying. I mean, sometimes I also don't understand what you're saying.

Hannah Maruyama [00:50:08]:
He's asking you for his own notification. What does that mean?

Ryan Maruyama [00:50:13]:
But yeah, I think that is a lot to do with it. Just trying to clarify and the way that I clarify, I don't understand what you're saying, or I don't know what you mean. Those are the words that I use. And I think a lot of people can think that is dismissive and maybe the way that I'm saying it leads you to believe that I'm being dismissive, which I don't intend to be. I'm not being I'm literally I

Hannah Maruyama [00:50:36]:
would tell you

Ryan Maruyama [00:50:37]:
if I

Hannah Maruyama [00:50:37]:
felt that way. This is

Ryan Maruyama [00:50:38]:
the third point. If you think that I override her sentences, you need to see what our life actually looks like. And what's hilarious about this right now is we're gonna have to edit it out. And because we added the show 2 times earlier already in this show, she talked over me.

Hannah Maruyama [00:50:56]:
I'm fighting the urge not to do it right now. It just went out. That's how we live. That's reality.

Ryan Maruyama [00:51:05]:
It's one of the reasons why I do the podcast.

Hannah Maruyama [00:51:07]:
It is. If you folks are wondering why, why doesn't Hannah ever do the, because I'm a terrible at doing it. It's something I'm working on and I am trying to get better at at it. I have been better at it, but yeah, I'm a talker. So it's difficult for me to be as good as you are at listening, asking questions, and letting other people speak. So that is the reason why sometimes he cuts me off and he also edits and he, he and our team edit and because they have to edit every time I talk over. And it's been something I've had to learn because the way the sound works is kind of like that. It's just an interesting thing to peek behind the curtain a little bit.

Hannah Maruyama [00:51:43]:
I don't have to edit out my interruptions, but Ryan and the team do. So what he's trying to do is cut down the amount of edits that need to be made to the podcast raw video after we're done.

Ryan Maruyama [00:51:53]:
No, that's not necessarily what I'm doing. I am overriding you. Sure. I'm just saying a lot of it. Other people don't see you overriding me because we edit it out. And then also they don't see the things that happen when the mics aren't here, which is I never get to speak. You just want to cut in and start talking without listening and letting other people speak. Just because you're, like, you're excited.

Ryan Maruyama [00:52:17]:
You're like a little puppy.

Hannah Maruyama [00:52:19]:
You know

Ryan Maruyama [00:52:19]:
what I mean?

Hannah Maruyama [00:52:19]:
Just like your blah. It's like, I just wanna

Ryan Maruyama [00:52:21]:
say something. I just wanna say something. And you mean it to be additive. You do, but it's very not additive. Sometimes. Most of the time.

Hannah Maruyama [00:52:29]:
Most of the time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:52:30]:
Well, yes, I am overriding your sentences. I'm just justifying or I'm just saying for myself that it happens. If you think I do it a lot.

Hannah Maruyama [00:52:40]:
You should see a real life.

Ryan Maruyama [00:52:41]:
Yes, exactly. And then the last thing I'll say is like, I'm a super direct person. Sure. I beat around the bush around a few things. I think the normal things that most people beat around the bush for, like, does this dress make me look fat? Or you know what I mean? Like, does my breast stink? Those types of things. Yeah. I'll lie to you. Like not you, but I'm just saying like anybody, anybody.

Ryan Maruyama [00:53:00]:
Yeah. I'm gonna lie. Like, or I'll beat around the bush and be like, no, it looks great or whatever. But when I do finally decide to tell you, I'm just gonna tell you, your breath stinks. I don't know how else to say it. Oh, the odor that is emanating from the orifice that's on the front of your face.

Hannah Maruyama [00:53:20]:
How should I experience of you? We've been reading the books.

Ryan Maruyama [00:53:25]:
Like, I don't know how else to say it other than like your breath stinks. I think when I'm being direct, because I'm trying to clarify it, it is my opinion. The only reason why we speak, anybody speaks on this planet is to be heard and to be listened to and to communicate a point across from somebody. And the way that I know how to do that best is to be direct. And a lot of people take that to be and I'm overriding. Right. And I'm dismissive because of my directness.

Hannah Maruyama [00:53:52]:
So that was a hilarious, a little,

Ryan Maruyama [00:53:54]:
that was a hilarious. I did that. I had to make up a whole entire half segment there about, putting the effort in the right place because I just didn't want to just, like, go straight for

Hannah Maruyama [00:54:04]:
Right. Go to the jugular.

Ryan Maruyama [00:54:06]:
Straight for this thing here. Anyway, I wanna end it on a very, very bright note. So I'm gonna read one more. This is from Sarah 3187. Sarah, thank you very much for leaving a review. The title is life changing. This podcast has been so helpful in changing our mindset and seeing so many possibilities we never even knew existed. Thank you for all your hard work making the show.

Ryan Maruyama [00:54:31]:
Sarah, thank you for leaving this review. That is awesome. It's something that Hannah and I have been thinking about what you're saying here. Seeing so many possibilities we never even knew existed. It's something that Hannah and I have been doing a lot of thinking about lately because we are writing this book and we have been talking to parents and we've been talking to young adults in the degree free launch program. And one of the things, you know, Hannah and I honed in on really early, I'll give credit where credit to, I honed in on really early is how can people know what jobs they want or how to get a job if they don't know that if that job ever existed, even exists. And the answer is they can't. If you don't know a job exists, you can't make a plan to get there.

Ryan Maruyama [00:55:19]:
It's that simple. I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I think it's that simple. I think that that holds water. I don't think that there's anything that you can say about it. That's wrong. We've been thinking about this whole vocational creativity thing, and I'll put links to the episodes of the podcast where we go over this whole vocational creativity and a few exercises that you can do to expand it. And vocational creativity is exactly what it sounds like, which is just being creative about the types of vocations and jobs that are out there. And it's trying to, you only know 4 jobs right now.

Ryan Maruyama [00:55:52]:
Like I only know fireman, policeman, EMT, teacher. Right. And if I, if those are only 4 jobs that I know, I'm going to get one of those 4 jobs because I don't know any other jobs that are out there.

Hannah Maruyama [00:56:05]:
And so how would you go get a job you don't know exists? Exactly.

Ryan Maruyama [00:56:10]:
And one of the keys for both the young adults that we work with and then also job seekers and career changers is just expanding your job knowledge, expanding your vocational horizons, you know, your vocational creativity. Anyway, it's just something that we've been thinking a lot about lately and we've kind of honed in on what we think is one of the biggest problems that we are dealing with here at degree free. It's just not knowing what jobs are out there.

Hannah Maruyama [00:56:40]:
It's that at the root of everything is a lack of knowledge as with most things, as with most problems. Right.

Ryan Maruyama [00:56:45]:
Exactly. And you don't know what you don't know. And so that's exactly what we're trying to do is expose you, the listener to different jobs.

Hannah Maruyama [00:56:53]:
Or teach you how to find different jobs and the way that you can go about finding the ones that are going to work for you.

Ryan Maruyama [00:56:59]:
Yeah. Sarah, thank you very much. Go to Apple Podcasts right now and write us a 5 star review,

Hannah Maruyama [00:57:06]:
please,

Ryan Maruyama [00:57:06]:
and leave a bunch of words there for a chance to get featured on this show.

Hannah Maruyama [00:57:15]:
On this show. Thank you so much.

Ryan Maruyama [00:57:18]:
Yeah. If you have any questions, I really do mean it. We are doing a Q and A show very, very soon. So ask.degreefree.coforward/question. Ask us your questions. And I think that's pretty much it for this week. I thought this episode was pretty good. I really enjoyed my trip to San Francisco, and I was really happy to meet Drake and then catch up with my friends and see how what they're doing.

Ryan Maruyama [00:57:41]:
And and, you know, it was really fortunate for me to be to go to GDC or not to go to GDC, but to go to San Francisco when GDC was going on and meet all those video game designers. It was

Hannah Maruyama [00:57:50]:
awesome. Interesting coincidence. We'll see what happens up

Ryan Maruyama [00:57:53]:
from it. Yeah. Definitely. I think that's pretty much it. Until next time, guys.