The Long-Term Effects of Student Loan Debt and How It Could Impact Your Child's Financial Future with Bradley (DF#169)

Bradley [00:00:00]:
Even if you don't have student loan debt, even if you have 15,000 in credit card debt and you think you're drowning in that, dedicate the next 2 years of your life to just getting rid of it and moving on and living the best life you can.

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:12]:
Aloha, and welcome back to the degree podcast. It's Hannah with you this week. I interviewed somebody absolutely amazing today on the podcast. I cannot wait for you folks to get into this interview. Please get to the end. Every single minute of this interview had me on the edge of my seat. The person I had on is a content creator from TikTok. His name is Bradley.

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:29]:
His handle is at baddie.brad on TikTok. He is a content creator who I have known about for some time, and then we recently connected due to a tag on one of his videos where he was talking about his experience with student loan debt and how he really feels for the incoming freshman every year at this time because of what happened to him as a result of the amount of student loan debt that he took on. And he goes over how much debt he got into, how he got into that, how he feels he was failed by the system, but also how he took responsibility and then righted, turned his life in a completely different direction using radical responsibility. And he is just such a fountain of wisdom, experience. He has done some extremely hard things, made some extremely hard choices in order to fix the things about his life that he did not like. And he took responsibility over something that I also believe having heard his story was not something he was fully informed about because when he went to college, he was 17 years old. And I think that all parents, all young adults need to hear this episode. I think that this is something that has far reaching impacts to a lot of people about the real ramifications of the student loan crisis that we're in and how predatory the institutions that we are sending our young adults into are, as well as his experience leading up to what caused him to sign his loans when he was 17 years old.

Hannah Maruyama [00:01:45]:
Please give it a listen. Please give it 5 stars because he did an amazing job, and I would love to have him back on the podcast to answer some mailbag questions if you folks have anything for him. But please, without further ado, listen to this episode with Bradley from TikTok. Aloha, everybody, and welcome back to the degree free podcast. I have with me today Bradley, who is a TikTok creator who has been an amazing resource for those who have found themselves in student loan debt. He also is a huge advocate for parents and young adults making informed consent about their educational purchases and educational design. I have him here to tell his pretty unbelievable story about what happened to him when he graduated high school and how he wound up in student loan debt and then the way that he wants to inform others about what happened to him so that it does not happen to those who come behind us. And so, Bradley, I am so thrilled and so honored to have you on podcast.

Bradley [00:02:43]:
Yes. I know. I just feel like it's a perfect fit for the message that you guys are both working to really get across with also the message I'm trying to get across. So I'm so excited for this.

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:53]:
The main reason too, and I'll tell everybody. We were just talking about this offline before. Somebody tagged us on one of your posts, and that is the reason why we were able to connect again. And we were able to realize, oh, wait. This makes so much sense. And the video that I specifically saw about you was you speaking about this time of year and all these young adults going back to college and just not realizing the financial implications and realizing the fact that a lot of US colleges and universities do not have their best interests at heart. I'd really love to go back into your story because this is the most important thing. Basically, what happened that led you to choose the degree that you chose and then how you felt you were given direction to do that when you graduated high school.

Bradley [00:03:33]:
So I graduated high school when I was 17, which already is a little younger than normal. I started a year early here in Connecticut just by law. So I was 17, graduated high school, and I felt this immense pressure from society telling you at 17, 18 years old, you better have it figured out. You better know what you wanna do, and you better go to college or else you're gonna be flipping burgers. Everyone was told that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:59]:
Hey there. I hope you're enjoying our conversation and getting a lot of value out of it. Here's a little behind the scenes. We don't pay our guests to join us. They come on purely to share their stories and experiences in the hopes that you can learn from their mistakes and take some lessons away so that you can change your life. The more our podcast reaches people just like you, the more brilliant degree free people we can have on as guests to come and share their stories. So if today's conversation resonated with you or you've listened to multiple episodes, please take a moment and share this episode with a friend. Just a simple click on that share button or a shout out on your stories will make a world of difference.

Ryan Maruyama [00:04:36]:
More shares means more listeners, and more listeners means more amazing guests for you. If you could do that right now, you would play a huge role in keeping this chain of knowledge going. Thank you for being a huge part of degree free.

Bradley [00:04:49]:
So here I am, a 17 year old in a senior year of high school, and I'm just like, I need to figure it out. And the only thing that I really liked at that time was pastry arts. I come from an Italian family, and food is everything. And I grew up with a grandmother who I was in the kitchen with her baking all the time. And with making that big decision of what I want to do for the rest of my life, which we all see now that we grow up, there's more than one thing you do with the rest of your life. I was like, I guess that's it. So I was looking into colleges, and with how society or even teachers in the public school system talk to you, you need the college education to go anywhere. You need the college education to be anyone.

Bradley [00:05:32]:
So my young, undeveloped brain is telling me if I want to be the best or have the best future, the best career, I should be striving for the best school. So that's why I applied and got into the Culinary Institute of America. Again, I'm 17 years old, and I come from a family that struggled with money. And it's not because of an income problem, it was a we don't know what we're doing problem on top of like shopping addictions and stuff. It was bad. Money was such a bad thing in my childhood growing up. And I'll be a 100% honest. That's my MO, right? I'm the honest guy talking about my story.

Bradley [00:06:12]:
I didn't even know what the school cost for the year. And I'll be even more honest that I never saw the FAFSA paperwork.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:21]:
I think a lot of people have that experience. They have no idea how much they're gonna pay before they sign. That's super common, I think.

Bradley [00:06:28]:
I always feel like I have to always defend myself. It's just the idea that as a 17 year old, I should have known better. And to anyone who thinks that, it just blows my mind.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:36]:
Nowhere else in our society do we use that metric except for student loans, interestingly enough. And it's always people who manage to dodge that. Well, I figured it out, and I said, yeah. But you were also 17. And where else do we allow bankruptcy exemptings to be signed by 17 year olds? Nowhere.

Bradley [00:06:52]:
Right. Or about mortgages. You can't be 17 and get a mortgage, so don't compare it to student loan debt.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:57]:
Or business loan.

Bradley [00:06:58]:
Right. All of the above. Anyways, I never knew what the total cost would be. I had no idea what loans were being taken out, what the interest rate looks like. I wouldn't have even known what it meant unless anyone in my life sat me down and was like, do you see what this is gonna cost? Do you do you understand what compounding interest daily on an 8% interest loan looks like? All these things. No one said anything. So I go to college. I get my degree.

Bradley [00:07:25]:
I graduate a couple months before I'm 21. So I got a bachelor's degree really quick. It all happened so fast. A week before graduating, I get sat down by the financial aid office. And they say, oh, congratulations, you're about to graduate. We're just signing in your student loan payment before any government assistance or income driven repayment plans is $1400 a month. Right in that moment, my entire life changed. And I knew it.

Bradley [00:07:52]:
Because, again, people think ignorance is bliss. It was just in that moment where even though I didn't know the mess I was making, I knew right in the moment of being told this is how much you owe and this is what your monthly payment was gonna be. I did know what all that meant in that moment. So it was a week before graduating, which should be the most exciting, happiest time of a college student's life because you just worked hard to accomplish this. And I remember being at graduation, sitting there being like, I think my life is over. It should be the most exciting moment and I'm just sitting there being, I'm in this mess and you can't back out. We'll probably talk about it further down in this podcast, but it's like, why did no one at the beginning sit me down or sit the students down and say, are you aware what this is gonna cost, what this interest looks like, what your total monthly payment's gonna be every month? It's just so convenient, I feel, now as a fully developed adult, that it was all hush-hush quiet right until the end when you can't back out.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:49]:
So I wanna go back a little bit because I have so many questions about this part of it. I had a very different experience. I also graduated fairly young. I went over a year and a half, basically, to a local university, but I had a grant. I was on scholarship. And it was different because I was still in high school. I was dual enrolled, and so I didn't have the same experience of the loan signing. And so I'm so interested because when you went in, did you tour the culinary institute?

Bradley [00:09:13]:
I did go. Yeah.

Hannah Maruyama [00:09:14]:
And then it was a physical campus?

Bradley [00:09:17]:
Yes.

Hannah Maruyama [00:09:17]:
And then what happened after you decided you were going to go there? Did you go to the office? And so how did the loan process work?

Bradley [00:09:24]:
I couldn't even tell you. Well, for 1, because of trauma, I've tried to leave so much of my life behind. I'm almost 32. It was well almost 15 years since this all happened where it's like most of us can't remember at 17 what certain life events were going on. But the only thing I remember is that people don't realize really how messed up the situation is. All I really remember is that my parents said, we don't understand how to do the FAFSA, so I'm gonna have one of my colleagues do it for me. Not only did I not know or see anything or agree to anything, it's like, I almost don't know if my parents did. Because my parents just put it in the hands of one of their colleagues to be like, oh, just put in this information and get the loans, and I'll sign off on it type of thing.

Bradley [00:10:09]:
There's so many moving parts that lead people into these messy situations. But again, the average person who doesn't think deeply enough just thinks, oh, you knew what you were signing up for, and you knew this was gonna fail, but you still decided to do it, which is not the case for, I think, almost all of us. I was not 17 saying I'm about to make this decision. I know it's gonna ruin my life. I know it's not gonna pay off, but, oh, let me go do it anyways. Get real. You know what I mean?

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:34]:
Yeah. But that was such a good point you made. If they knew and they knew then. They knew how much you were gonna be paying because they know the price. The colleges know, and they know, And they knew when they got your parents' information because basically what they do, the way that colleges work and the way they charge is actually they take your parents' income, and then they spend and they decide how much they're gonna charge. I'm sure they did that because you said your parents did okay. And And so they just looked at their income, and they're like, this is what we're gonna charge them. That's exactly what they did.

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:58]:
And they knew how much you were gonna pay, and they knew exactly what your student loan payment was gonna be because there's forecasting. They could have guessed, and they could have been within a margin of error. So why didn't someone look you in the eyes and say why aren't they legally required? And say your monthly payment is gonna be $1400 the minute you graduate. And the other thing is that the people that give you crap, you graduated in 4 years. 60% of college graduates do not graduate in 4 years. They take 5a half. You graduated on time. You did exactly what you were supposed to do.

Hannah Maruyama [00:11:26]:
So they sat you down and they told you this, and you're sitting at graduation and going, what do I do? Did you just start panicking? What did you do?

Bradley [00:11:33]:
I still held on to this ounce of hope that I had because the reason why I went to the Culinary Institute of America is because they sell themselves on being the best. And that was my whole thing is that I felt like if I want the best career, I must have to go to the best school. Man, can we get into this. Because even on the website to this day, which they were doing back when I applied almost 15 years ago, they say the degree will pay off immediately. They say not only will it pay off immediately, but you're likely to earn more than going to other culinary schools. So they're manipulating these young, impressionable, unaware kids, teenagers, and the parents who are putting their faith in the college, believing the college has their kids' best interests at heart. Maybe, yes, that's a ton of money, and that student loan payment every month is very high, but maybe at the very least, it's gonna pay off because I went to the best school, I got the best education as they advertise. And I said, well, maybe I'll be able to make this work out.

Bradley [00:12:36]:
From the time I graduated to about the 4 to 5 years I stayed in the pastry arts field until I luckily got out, I never made more than $15 an hour. And I just want anyone to answer, how does a $130,000 degree pay off immediately when over 5 years of being out of college and in the industry, you're making 11 to $15 an hour? If anyone could tell me how that works, you let me know. And I think that's where I hit my breaking point where I shared my story because I knew it wasn't right that I was sold the dream and bought the lie, and I just didn't want another person to be like me. And, of course, I graduated 11 years ago, so there's years years of people who now are in my shoes who have done the same exact thing. I held on to an ounce of hope hoping the degree was going to do its thing and be worth the value that I paid for, only to find out the food industry couldn't have cared less. I was earning the same amounts as people who have a trade school degree, which I'm not talking down on that at all. I'm just giving the example that I got the world renowned CIA Patriot's degree, and I'm making no more than someone who got a certificate out of high school.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:58]:
Or just started. Because Ryan worked in kitchens for a long time back of house. That was about what he was making. They tell you and they tell young adults that this is what you have to do. You must do this in order to pass go, and that's just simply not the case. And this is something I talk about a lot. Someone should have said, hey. The pay is gonna be $15 an hour, and it's gonna be like that for a long time until you work your way up.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:20]:
It's gonna take years to get to the point where you're a sous chef and pastry or assistant chef.

Bradley [00:14:25]:
I have an example of that too. So I left New York City, and I moved back to to Connecticut. And I was still in the pastry arts fields trying to make it work, trying to have my big break where it finally would pay off. So I applied for this pastry chef position. So that's the top. I was a pastry cook, then you'd be like sous chef or the pastry chef. And not only would it have been overlooking the pastry department, but it would have been like floating against other departments. You're doing a lot.

Bradley [00:14:52]:
With my CIA degree, almost 5 years of New York City pastry arts industry experience, I got the pastry chef job, and they offered me $14 an hour. It's when people say you didn't stick with it enough. You didn't work hard enough. You didn't do this enough. After not only getting the world renowned pastry arts degree from the CIA that everyone bows to, even though they shouldn't, and having these 5 years of experience in New York City, not in the Midwest in a small town, like the mecca of food, New York City. And all of this still meant nothing to be offered $14 an hour, and just for the sake of wages and stuff. That was in 2017. So $14 wasn't minimum wage, but it wasn't this magnificent income to be paying off a 6 figure degree either.

Bradley [00:15:39]:
So that was my breaking point. I don't know how I'm getting out of this industry, but I'm out. I'm done. It's not worth it. It's not paying off. I can't even survive with the wages I'm earning. So many people wanna pick on me and my story. Do you know how many kids I graduated with from the CIA who have the same story, who had to get into other industries and fields because the food industry wasn't paying?

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:03]:
I would guess 53%, because nationally, that's what it is for degrees.

Bradley [00:16:07]:
Yeah. Most. And it's like my student loan payment alone was at that time, I think it was $870. So on 13, $14 an hour, I already owe almost $900 before living expenses.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:22]:
The thing that really gets me about this too is it's such a trap for creatives. I would put pastry arts into an art and creative category. There's some structure. There's some science. There's so many aspects to that. And, you know, much more than I could ever dream to forget about those things because you did it. It's one of those things where we're handcuffing them. We're chaining them up in debt when really what should have happened, in my view, is that someone should have told you to try to apply to an entry level position as an assistant or in the kitchen and to just work your way up.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:56]:
Because then if you wanted to keep your living expenses really low, you could afford to do that if you didn't have that debt payment. Because I was looking at the amount of money you were paying. Could have scraped by, earned some stripes, and then gotten up. And that's prevented you from being able to do that, which is so sad because you wanted to do that. If someone had just said, hey. Just go apply for a job. And you could have applied to 10 jobs, and maybe one would have said yes to you.

Bradley [00:17:19]:
Oh, I agree. And if I could add to that point, I talked about this a little bit a while ago, and it really stuck with people how I feel like I fell out of love with the career in pastry arts because I had so much resentment towards the degree. And that's what I think is really heartbreaking to me because it's like the love of pastry started with my grandmother, so there's so much love in that. And I knew I enjoyed doing it because it was my way of showing people I love them. Because to create something out of a bunch of different ingredients takes time, it takes effort and energy, and all those things. That's a great example of showing love. And I realized so early on in my career, I'm working this job to pay off a degree that told me I need the degree to get the job. And I just so quickly realized how messed up the system was and just how misled I felt by the school that I just completely fell out of love with it.

Bradley [00:18:15]:
I get a lot of comments of people being like, but food videos are so popular. You should do this. You should do that. I'm like, I wanna be so far removed from it.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:23]:
I robbed you of your joy of doing it, and that is so wrong. So it didn't just take that money from you and that work that you have to now do to get out of it, but it also robbed you of this thing that you wanted to do. Someone employed you doing that for years, so I'd imagine you were pretty good at it. That's such a bummer. I hope people really take that away from this conversation because that is something I see as well. I see that with people that go to school for creative things, like they go to school for writing. That's a terrible one. Just go find a job at a paper.

Bradley [00:18:51]:
I have a little side story with you saying that. Well, because everyone always wants to blame the kid for making the decision, but I rarely bring my sister into my life story. Would you believe my sister has a 6 figure creative writing degree? It's an everything problem. When everyone always says, like, oh, you should've known better whatever blah blah blah. Or maybe parents need to be protecting their kids. It's just like, how do 2 kids end up with useless 6 figure degrees?

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:16]:
So I'll tell you a story now. You and I are about the same age. So I just turned 30. And so my mom just stopped a couple years ago telling me to go to college for business, which is hilarious for a lot of reasons. But she just stopped saying, oh, you should just go get a business degree. Why would I do that? I could probably teach the class because whoever the professor is probably has never run a business. They don't know. Not in an arrogant way of just speaking to most academics or career academics, they don't have any practical experience.

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:44]:
What's so interesting about that is it stems from we just did an episode about this a few weeks ago, and I think you might find it interesting. But that generation, your parents' generation is the same generation as my parents. And what happened was in the eighties, there was still positive ROI for a very brief amount of time. And then after that, it started to go through the floor for the vast majority of degrees. Because in 1965, the Higher Education Act was what started subsidizing student loans. So it got the government involved, and now they were making money off of it. And they're like, oh, this is a gold mine. And then what happened was only 7.4% of all the people in the country had degrees at that point.

Hannah Maruyama [00:20:19]:
Doctors, lawyers, engineers, surgeons, that's who we were looking at because those were the professions that legally required degree purchases to get the licenses to do the jobs. And a lot of that too at that time, the reason they started subsidizing that was because they were subsidizing all the GIs that had just come back from World War 2. There's all these people going to college, and then it was going well. And they were getting higher income because they were getting free college degrees for their well, not free. Right? They paid for it with their service. And then they came back, and they got these degrees. And then everybody goes, wait a minute. Now the government will subsidize them, and those are the Parent PLUS loans.

Hannah Maruyama [00:20:50]:
That's exactly when that happened. And then by 1976, the federal government had to amend the Higher Education Act to make loans bankruptcy exempt because the default rate at that point had already gone through the roof. Because 13.8% of people had college degrees. It literally doubled within 11 years, and the default rate was so high. They were like, we can't have this, because it was 2%. And it went to 30% by 1990, which is crazy. If it continued to modern levels, the default rate on student loans would've been 450% default rate, which is insane. But they marketed that whole time our parents because their parents benefited.

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:25]:
They did benefit because there was a brief period of time where there's positive ROI because not that many people had degrees, and they didn't cost very much. If you look at the college tuition from that time, it's like $200. It's ridiculous. You and I were victims, though, if our parents had been sold by their parents that the degree was away because it was 2 generations back. And so they just told us by a degree that's the answer. That's what happened Because your parents did it, and my parents did it too. And we're from different parts of the country. And so did Brian's parents.

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:51]:
Same thing. From Hawaii, totally different parts of the country, totally different cultures. Doesn't matter. It was the go to college because the grandparents had positive ROI, like you mentioned. Anyway, that's my only aside because I don't wanna detract from your story.

Bradley [00:22:03]:
Good history lesson. Oh, Scott.

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:06]:
It's just wild because it was college marketing. So what I'm curious about so one, what are you doing now also? I'd love to know kind of where you're at now and what's going on, because I know it's not all bad. There is positive there's redemption.

Bradley [00:22:18]:
Yeah. Luckily, it's not all bad. It was all bad up until 3 years ago. So I actually just recently began a job as a financial coach. Pretty fitting. I don't walk around like I know it all. I just really live through my experience of turning around a 6 figure debt situation. Making $11 $12 an hour wasn't easy.

Bradley [00:22:39]:
It took 11 years to do it. I just really have a passion because I see what my life looked like with no financial education, no one empowering you, no one guiding you. And I now see the difference in my own life from understanding finances, feeling empowered, knowing about making good choices, and having discipline. So I find so much passion to now help other people in any way I can, whether it's hosting financial literacy classes, I've done that, or even if I go on TikTok live and we have a fun time. And I'm just trying to get people to wake up, man, whether it's about student loan debt or overconsuming. Because, you know, if I just lived like everyone else and just lived for today, I would still be drowning in 6 figures of debt and still be at square 1, but 10 years later.

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:25]:
You're on TikTok, so you probably see some of the things that I see, which is a lot of people in our age range that have the type of debt that we do. And you and I, I think, are almost Gen z, but we're millennials still. We're, like, right there on the cusp. It's a little bit of both. A little bit of the older gen z and the younger millennials, which is just, it's okay. I forgave my own student loans. Like, it doesn't work like that. They're gonna garnish your wages, and you will die in debt.

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:48]:
But they're just pretending like that chicken is never gonna come home to roost. They're just pretending like it doesn't exist. And since you have been helping people with the situation, I'll get back to the parents and the young adults a little bit later so you can kinda talk about what you would have done if you could go back so that can help them. But for a minute, some of our audience are actually adult job seekers that do have one to multiple degrees, and they are struggling with very similar situation. And so what I'd love to know is if you could give people some advice for how do they dig themselves out of that, and then what are the ramifications of pretending like that student loan debt doesn't exist?

Bradley [00:24:22]:
I always say saving money saved my life because it really did. Just like how I shared earlier in the podcast, the moment they said my student loan payment every month was gonna be $1400 and how I knew my life was over, I also knew in that moment everything is gonna change right now. And really it's because of what I saw growing up. That even though I was from an average middle class family and my parents had mailman and a nurse, very structured careers. But because they couldn't believe they could win, because they couldn't imagine living life any differently, or getting on the same page with their finances, to this day, they still can't really get it together. I try to not talk too much about the family, but it's a massive piece of my story. So I knew even though my life was completely destroyed with the student loan debt, and even though I was about to have this massive monthly payment, I said, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know how I'm gonna do it.

Bradley [00:25:18]:
I don't even know if it's ever gonna go away, but this will not be my life for the rest of my life. And I said this like at day 1. It didn't take me years. It took me in that moment. That was the biggest slap from reality when they said this is how much you're gonna owe because my whole life came crashing in that moment. And I just knew right away, this isn't gonna be the rest of my life, and I refuse to be just like what I saw growing up. And again, I'm one person. This degree is not making me a lot of money.

Bradley [00:25:48]:
So what can I do? My situation felt so out of control because I ended up in a situation that feels like no one looked out for me. This is where people won't be happy. I feel like my situation is because everyone else let me end up there. The public school system, my parents, guidance counselors, the school itself. No one's saying wake up. Look what you're doing. So for a situation that felt so out of control, I said, what am I now in control of to turn my life around? Because this cannot be the rest of my life. I'm not settling for this.

Bradley [00:26:23]:
I don't want to be like what I saw growing up. So it was just intense from day 1. I have clothes. I don't need to buy clothes. I'm gonna go to the grocery store. Eating out's too expensive. Concerts or going out all the time or streaming services, x, y, and z, I don't need it. What I need is an emergency fund.

Bradley [00:26:43]:
What I need is a sigh of relief. And if I'm throwing my money at all of these things around me instead of putting it in my own pocket and putting it in my savings account, I'm never gonna get anywhere. And that was my biggest thing because like I said, I told myself, this is never gonna go away. But if I could just keep saving, saving, saving, and I could just have enough money where I can breathe and feel okay because $130,000 of debt making $12 an hour, you're suffocating. You're drowning. There's no wiggle room. It's a nightmare. Every day was a nightmare for years of my life.

Bradley [00:27:21]:
And I just said, if you could just keep saving a little bit and build it in so you can at least be okay if, like, an emergency happens, if you ever need to get a new place to stay. Because if something ever happened and I have no money, it's over, which stems from childhood trauma too because, again, I always saw money in the negative way. Money always caused problems and fights, which were all exposed right in front of me. Our parents' generation, where the emotional intelligence may not really be there. So I saw a lot of just negative stuff with money. And all of this just kind of boiled up to this will not be me forever. Now I tell people saving money saved my life because I started from day 1, which was almost 11 years ago. I graduated the end of September.

Bradley [00:28:03]:
We're almost at the 11 year mark filming this. Had I not started from day 1, I don't even know where I would be today. All of it was so worth it. So for anyone who's listening, and trust me, I know it it's not the Olympics, but you're likely not in a $130,000 of debt making $12 an hour. So you're listening to someone who was at max capacity nightmare, the worst of the worst. And it took 11 years. It took sleepless nights. It took me contemplating if I even wanted to keep living.

Bradley [00:28:34]:
All of it. But it was so worth it on the other side. And that was my biggest thing I always told myself. I said, for those times I wanted to give up, I have no idea what's on the other side of this. Oh, I could start crying. I do. I'm so sorry.

Hannah Maruyama [00:28:48]:
One, I want to applaud you for your radical responsibility even though I strongly feel also that was not your it's a Hawaiian word for responsibility, kuleana, as Ryan says. You were so young when that situation occurred, And I would love to go back to you at that time and just give you a hug and tell you to go apply to pastry shop. But now what you're doing, there is so much joy and there is so much hope, and you have to take responsibility. You just have to go, I'm not gonna let this happen to me. I'm not gonna do that. And I know that you made a lot of hard choices, and you're talking about them right now. You have lived in a way that a lot of people are not willing to live to get themselves out of the situation that they are in. I didn't know you then, but you could tell you've done a lot of inner work.

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:31]:
You have a lot of inner peace as a result of this. It seems like you know what needs to be done. You know how to do it, and you're helping other people do that. And, wow, your story is amazing, truthfully too.

Bradley [00:29:41]:
Thanks. I appreciate it. I wanna say too, I don't want it to slip my mind. I always tell people I was a victim of the system, but I'm not a victim of myself. So much of us were so screwed in our student loan situation, and that is the truth. And we can acknowledge that, but you cannot be sitting around waiting for someone to save you. I always thought if I did enough cries for help, my parents were gonna come, and they never did. To be honest, like if I connected with older men, they'd hear my story and feel pity for me and they would help, and they never did.

Bradley [00:30:10]:
Even though I was clawing at my situation to get out of it, I still was always waiting for someone to save me. And I think it's once I started to see myself getting on the other side of it, I was like, you got this yourself. No one's coming to save you. It's been years at this point, Bradley. You got screwed. You're not getting a refund, so you have to just tackle it. And I really do feel sad for a lot of people that are in similar situations. They're either sitting back waiting for the government to do something, which let's just say the same government who allowed this is not gonna be the same government who saves you.

Bradley [00:30:44]:
You have to wake up, and you have to save yourself in this. And I think if people think in that mindset of I'm a victim of the system, but I'm not a victim of myself, so I'm not gonna sit back and let my life go by. I tell people in my content, I've lived both sides of it, both extremes. I lived the life of a $130,000 of debt with a degree making $12 an hour. And now I've lived on the other side of it where I'm more financially stable than I ever in my wildest dreams thought was possible, truly. So I've seen both very extreme sides of it. And I'm just telling you, you do not want that looming cloud over your head. It feels scary.

Bradley [00:31:25]:
It's intimidating. You think it can never go away or get better, but you're listening to someone who literally in worst case scenario, and I did it. I think what hurts a lot of us today is instant gratification and how quick everything in life is, whether it's social media or ordering something online and it shows up the next day, that we want our financial situations to be just as quick. It's so easy to listen to me now and hear, oh, I'm financially stable. I did it. I work all these jobs. But it was an 11 year story to be here. Even if you don't have student loan debt, even if you have 15,000 in credit card debt and you think you're drowning in that, dedicate the next 2 years of your life to just getting rid of it and moving on and living the best life you can.

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:10]:
This is so valuable. It's inspiring. Part of the reason I'm quiet is because I don't think there's anybody that can't learn from you, from your level of discipline, from what you have done. I'm listening going, I should reexamine my life. I should reexamine my habits with a closer microscope as a result of just listening to you speak about how accountable you are for your purchases and your spending. There is nobody that doesn't need to hear that. Everybody does. But I wanna roll it back around before we wrap up to parents and young adults.

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:37]:
And you said it at the beginning, and I think it's very insightful because you have come to a similar conclusion that Ryan and I have from a very different path. My conclusion also is that parents are the ones that need to be equipped to help their children along this decision. And it's interesting you had that theory, but the stats actually say that parents are the biggest decider of whether or not their children buy college degrees. It's parents. They make that decision, and it's often not the young adults, especially now that it's tied to the FAFSA. And for most kids, it actually is. The biggest thing, too, that parents need to know is that when your child's 25, their brain will be fully formed, they will have a full prefrontal cortex, and that the FAFSA will no longer be tied to their income. So the government will not be trying to reach through and get into the parents' pockets as a result.

Hannah Maruyama [00:33:21]:
I'd like you to tell 18 year old you what to do instead of sign the loans.

Bradley [00:33:26]:
It's a question I get asked so much, especially when I go live on TikTok. People are saying, like, if you could go back in time with what you know now, what would you do? And it could be a hot take, but to me, it blows my mind that we think it's okay that 17 18 year olds go to college. From my own experience, you're fully developed at 25. Why do we think it's appropriate that 17 18 year olds are making this massive step in their life that can cost so much money and we normalize it and we think that's okay? And I say this based on my own story that, for 1, I fell out of love with pastry arts because I think we all know yourself at 17 is now who you are at 25, 30, 35. If I was to go back in time with what I know now, I wish I actually took time off after high school. I feel like I went into college, especially as a 17 year old, because everything and everyone around me convinced me to. I don't want to use the word forced. Obviously, I wasn't forced to

Hannah Maruyama [00:34:21]:
Coerced, I think, is the word.

Bradley [00:34:23]:
Right. But it's also like when you have teachers and guidance counselors saying it's the thing that's gonna make or break your future. It's the thing that's gonna prevent you from flipping burgers, which I ended up working at Dunkin' for more money as a side gig. So it's like, getting a college degree sometimes makes you end up having to flip burgers.

Hannah Maruyama [00:34:40]:
Oh, that's a clip right there.

Bradley [00:34:42]:
It's really true. I was a host at one point, so I had to do so much to make more money just to survive because of my college degree. So I just wish, graduating high school at 17, I wish I took time to grow up, to develop, to get to know me, to have just an average basic job earning money. I was working. I taught tennis summer camp at one point, so I don't want people to be like, oh my god. Look at this kid who never had a job. But I feel like if out of high school, if I had a full time job and I saw how difficult it was to make that paycheck and to buy your first vehicle and to pay the phone bill and to pay this, I feel like it would have woken me up to be like, there's no way I'm going to a school that's gonna cost me a $130,000 in 3 years if I see how hard it was to just make $1500 on minimum wage. That is just what I wish I did, and it feels like there's this race to get your college degree.

Bradley [00:35:36]:
You finish high school at 17 or 18. You get your college degree by your 22, 23 maybe, and I just don't know if it's necessary to do that. Because if I still continue to go through the path I wanted to of pastry arts, I saw this happening all the time in the industry. Someone starts as the dishwasher, then they start as the prep cook, then they move up to the line, then they become the sous chef. My trajectory could have been so much different if maybe I just didn't rush right to college, if I just let life happen, or I could have found another passion. Of course, I could sit here all day and say what could have happened. But I just don't think it was right for me to be an underdeveloped 17 year old with no guidance around me and going to a school that ended up being, like, $35,000 a year and not even knowing what that meant. To keep it real with people, I think even if I was sat down and explained this cost, this interest, what compounding daily it means, even if someone explains it to me, I was 17 years old.

Bradley [00:36:38]:
I wouldn't have even understood the concept of what all of that meant. So I feel like we're talking about parents and kids and it's like the parent has to parent. You need to not only look out for your kids and educate your kids. You need to protect your kids. And I don't want to sound like some crazy hippie dippie, like the system's going to ruin your kids. So many people want to point the blame to college costs are so high, the government this, the government that, but at the end of the day, it's the parents' responsibility to not let their kid do that. And I'm gonna say this too because I didn't mention it earlier. When I was considering school, I was actually steered away from community college.

Bradley [00:37:16]:
And I don't know if this was the same with your upbringing, but community college to me was described as high school 2.0. You're doing high school all over again, or you're with slackers. Those are not my beliefs. Okay? That's what I was raised to believe, but I don't believe that. Obviously, I encourage community college because it's so affordable. And I get so frustrated that probably what would have been the best choice for me, I was steered away from by my parents because they had a negative perception of what community college was. And even here in Connecticut, I know there's a community college that has a pastry arts degree for like $4,000 How different my life would have been if my parents were like, well, instead of the $130,000 degree, how about we look at the less than $10,000 degree or $15,000 whatever it was. And everything led me to this moment of where I am in life, which I'm so grateful and happy for my life now that I juggle with that, what would have happened if it was different.

Bradley [00:38:14]:
And I'm so glad my story now is waking people up and making waves and changes and getting people to make different choices. So I guess the original question was what would I do differently at 18? So I think I just wish I would have pushed back on the societal pressure to feel like I have to have it all figured out right now at 17 and do that right away or else I'm gonna be the the loser working on fast food because you don't have your college degree when it could have saved me. 10 years of heartache and nightmare.

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:46]:
Probably gonna wrap it up here, but, man, it's very clear, though, that you are supposed to be doing what you're doing. You have a gift. You're an incredibly effective communicator. I'm inspired by how well you tell your story and how well you explain to other people what to take away from it. I'm gonna watch this back, and I'm trying to learn how to be a better speaker, and I'm gonna take notes on how you are incredibly gifted at communication. It's such a skill to be able to, 1, just have that sincerity and, like I said, that radical responsibility for yourself to go, okay. What happened? And then explain to other people how they can avoid those exact same things. And then, also, you've been able to make a life for yourself that you do love, and that's great.

Hannah Maruyama [00:39:24]:
That's amazing. And I'm just super grateful for you coming on and sharing this story. And it was like, I had high expectations for this, but they were blown away by how gifted of a storyteller you are. This is a great episode, and I hope parents really drive that home. The biggest thing I want them to take away, and it's funny you said that, but I say that all the time, your kids should work first because they need to understand how much money is at stake because they will make very different decisions once they understand exactly what you said, which is how long is it gonna take me to make that money, realistically speaking. And understanding that that is what's gonna cost them in time and effort and labor, and that's so important. Parents really are the end all. Only parents can prevent unforgivable student loan debt.

Hannah Maruyama [00:40:05]:
Are there any parting thoughts that you'd like to give people? And, also, if people can reach out to you, if you have courses or seminars or coaching for people. If there's anything you'd like to let our audience know about, please, because there's just a lot of people that would love to learn from you more.

Bradley [00:40:19]:
So my biggest platform is TikTok. So you could find me as baddie.brad as you see on the screen. You probably could type in Bradley on a budget, and you'll find me that way. I make a lot of content either talking about student loan debt or just giving I guess I call them financial freak outs, which people really enjoy that I just scream at them, and it really wakes them up to stop their BS with their spending. So we have a lot of fun on my page. So I don't necessarily do courses or financial coaching. I'm trying to build up my own financial coaching business, but I'm not there yet. But if you'd like to come to my page and have some fun and let me scream at you to wake up and stop being like everyone else and turn your life around, I would appreciate that.

Bradley [00:40:57]:
That'd be great. But I think I really just wanted to end it with, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who does a podcast for you to tell me like my way of talking or sharing my story is really well done. I just think I wanna end it with this for anyone listening that regardless if it's student loan debt, credit card debt, no debt at all, and you just feel stuck in life. When I was 21 years old, fresh out of college, living this nightmare, feeling like my life was over, I had no goals and no dreams because I even kind of grew up in that environment where I just feel like I wasn't taught to think big. It was kind of like life's always gonna be a problem one way or another. That's kind of how I was raised. So I never had a plan for my future or anything I was striving for. And the one thing I would tell myself is I just wish one day my student loan story could be heard.

Bradley [00:41:50]:
I just wish one day someone could hear my student loan story, and it can help people. Either help people prevent doing what I've done or help people who are in my shoes feel seen because I had no one to look up to. I only had myself, which is even crazy because I felt like there was no one like me in so much debt, which is really phenomenal that after sharing my story, I've connected with so many people and so many people have connected with one another in our stories. I just hope anyone listening to this who feels stuck in life or down or like it can never happen to you. Oh my God. If I could go back to being 21 and looking at 31 year old me to see not only my story go viral, but my story make an impact, literally a dream come true. I had no platform. I had no following.

Bradley [00:42:37]:
I had nothing when I had these dreams 10 years ago of hopefully my story could be heard one day. I was like, I have no idea how I'm gonna do it, but I hope I can do it one day.

Hannah Maruyama [00:42:47]:
You said that 21 year old you would have been basically very proud of 31 year old you and couldn't have seen you being able to tell your story.

Bradley [00:42:54]:
What's so fascinating is that when I started my TikTok page almost 5 years ago, which is crazy, I talked about everything but my student loan debt because I felt so much shame and so much embarrassment behind my story. I felt like such a loser to be played by the system and in so much debt that I was too embarrassed to ever talk about my student loan debt. But until my last breath, I'll never believe how the one decision to open up and be vulnerable and share my story was the one decision that completely changed my life, really. So anyone who's listening who thinks it can't happen to them, whatever your dream is, whatever you think it is, and you think I'm this or I'm not enough that or it's never gonna happen to me, please believe it can happen. My student loan anniversary story, I posted it almost 3 years ago. I'm almost at the 3 year anniversary. And just to this day, I still can't believe all this happened. And it's so fascinating too because when I shared my student loan story, I said, so many people have student loan debt.

Bradley [00:43:58]:
Who's gonna care about my story? And what it's done has exceeded and blown away my wildest dreams. I was just that 21 year old who prayed someone could hear me, and now people do. I'm no one special. I guess that's what I'm trying to say, like, I'm just a person who had this thought in this dream that something could happen, That I could turn my situation around, and that I could use my story to help people. And I've done both things. So I just hope anyone who needs that encouragement, who feels stuck, or like life's not gonna get better, or if going away is the better answer than staying. What I always told myself in my darkest times was you never know what's on the other side of tomorrow. And I stuck with it, and now I'm on the other side.

Hannah Maruyama [00:44:39]:
And you are changing lives through your story and through your work, and I'm so grateful. I was so looking forward to having you on, and this was amazing. Thank you so much for being so transparent and being so honest and being so actionable for our audience. Super, super appreciate it. And we're probably gonna have to have you back on.

Bradley [00:44:59]:
I would love it. I don't know if you wanna have repeat guests, but, oh my gosh. This was so fun. I feel so grateful. Again, I can't believe anyone wants me on a podcast. That's where my brain is. I'm still like 21 year olds me where I'm like, oh,

Hannah Maruyama [00:45:11]:
like you're nothings. You're doing amazing work.

Bradley [00:45:14]:
Thank you. Yeah. Just to be invited on and hopefully my story helps more people and reaches more people because that's really just what I want at the end of the day. But this was amazing, and I'm so glad we got to connect and collaborate. And thanks everyone for listening.

Hannah Maruyama [00:45:28]:
Thanks everybody. And if you wanna follow Bradley on TikTok at baddie.brad, or you can also search Bradley on a budget. He probably will be a return guest on the pod. If you have questions for him, go ahead and send them. Maybe we'll do a mailbag episode if we get some questions. And leave Bradley 5 stars for coming on and telling his story on the degree free podcast. Thank you all for listening.

Bradley [00:45:47]:
Bye.