Ask Ryan and Hannah: Vocational Creativity™ in the Creative Production Field (DF#178)

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:00]:
If you want to move up in the industry, it makes sense for you to go as early as you can and start earning your stripes so that you can be exposed to more types of people who will bring you more opportunity if you do good work. And that's a huge thing. So if work in film production, move to a place where there's film production or theater production and have her go get an entry level job.

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:23]:
Aloha folks, and welcome back to Degree Free. Today, we are answering another one of your questions. 1 of the viewers just like you. If you want your question answered, you can go to ask.degreefree.co and ask your question there. Today's question comes from Catherine, and this was on our old system. So it is audio only. And it also allowed you to do a little bit of bio. Hey, I'm going to read the bio before we listen to that question.

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:47]:
But now when you go there, we've changed systems since this. So it'll all just be 100% question. You can just use your phone and then ask your question into the phone. The question that we have here, this is from Catherine. I'm going to read her bio. I'm a single mom of a senior in high school. My daughter has already been admitted to 3 universities, but she doesn't know which one to choose because she isn't even sure she wants to study. So that was the background for the question that we are about to hear.

Catherine [00:01:14]:
Hi. My name is Catherine. My daughter is 17. She is not sure what she want to do when she goes to college. She was thinking about production. Actually, that was the major that choose in her application, but she's also worried on me too because it's a lot of money. We don't want to get in a lot of debt. So she's trying to apply to FAFSA or another programs here in California.

Catherine [00:01:37]:
But my major concern is she doesn't know what she wants. I need some clarification or maybe some ideas because I don't know how to help her. I hope that you can give me some time of guy or what she can do because we are in a very short budget. So I'm lost because she's going to be 1st generation going to college here in the states. So I'm a

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:01]:
little bit worried about that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:03]:
Thank you so much, Catherine, for your message. And I hope I'm not messing the pronunciation. For this question, this seems like it's 2 questions. It's the production and how does she get into production? And then there's the, I don't know what to do. And then there's the whole college thing. So maybe 2, 3 questions or so. So let's just take it 1 by 1 and we'll walk through each one. So we're going to start with the production field with the production field.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:35]:
I'm not 100% sure of what she means. I'm going to be very honest and because she wasn't super clear, is it film production? What kind of production? Is it music production? I'm assuming that it's some sort of art production.

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:50]:
It's art production because 4 year universities don't have production 4 year degrees. They just don't, they don't exist. The only thing that would be anything close to that would be maybe like product design, but she would probably wouldn't refer to it as production.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:02]:
I agree, which is why I've just want to make that very clear to the listeners. I'm assuming, and I'm going to go down the arts production route and not some sort of other production, like manufacturing production or something like that.

Hannah Maruyama [00:03:14]:
Yeah. Like CNC or something like that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:16]:
So I'm going down the arts production, the movie music, that type of realm. If we're walking down that path, which is a major assumption that we just made for that career and for that field, you don't need a college degree. Employers, what they want to see is they want to see work and they want to see skills. They don't care where you studied. They want to see your portfolio. They want to see what you have done. It's literally never been easier to be an artist or to be an art production ever.

Hannah Maruyama [00:03:44]:
The barrier to entry is the slightest amount of skill.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:47]:
Hey there. I hope that you're loving this episode of the degree free podcast. We spend a ton of time every week creating this content for you. So my only ask is you take a quick second to leave a review or thumbs up on whatever platform you're on. It's one of the best and easiest ways that you can support this podcast, and this simple action can help bring more people into the degree free community. At degree free, we wanna help as many people as we can thrive and succeed without needing a college degree. Your review will be a step in that direction. If you could do this small favor right now, pause this and leave a review.

Ryan Maruyama [00:04:18]:
It would truly mean the world to us. Thank you, and back to the show. Exactly. Almost every single thing that you could be doing in the art production industry, whether it be film, TV, music, those types of major production types of things, it's never been easier. And when you're going into those fields, having a portfolio shows 2 things. 1, that you can already do the work. Here is the skill level that I have. And you just show them whether it's a Google site, like one of my friends, his portfolio is just a Google site.

Ryan Maruyama [00:04:47]:
Literally, it's sites. Google.com/hisname. That's how simple it can be. It's kind of like a link tree. Like he uses it literally like a link tree where it is just embedded with a bunch of his YouTube videos or with a bunch of his Vimeo or a link to his Vimeo page or certain things that he wants to highlight. Here's what I can do for wedding events. Here's what I can do for graduation events, or here's what I could do for short films and those types of things. But this guy is in the film.

Ryan Maruyama [00:05:13]:
He's a, he's a video editor. It can be as simple as that. It shows that you've already done the work and here's where I am and here's my skill level. But then the second part, especially when you're this young, is it shows that you have the drive to get out there and already do it. And you're not waiting for permission to get started. You're showing them, look, even though I haven't had any professional work, or maybe you have had a couple of gig jobs, even though I'm not getting paid to do it, this is my skill level and I'm already doing it. Regardless of whether or not you give me this job, I'm going to continue honing my skill and honing my craft. And don't you want somebody that's going to continue to do that with you so that you can train me how to do your style of production?

Hannah Maruyama [00:05:52]:
This is such a big point that I want to make because you and I have talked to in our lives, but also just in the line of work that we're in. We talked to a lot of producers, editors, film folks, people that do production for TV media, like traditional media, radio, and local news and things like that. All of them say the same thing, get in the room, get a job, work your way up. That is how it works. And the reason is because if you think about it, it's because it's all based on a relationship in that industry. And once you say that, most people realize that that's the case. But the best way to learn how to run all these things is to get in there and learn it. And it's the best way to get opportunity because that industry is all based on who you know, all of it.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:34]:
And if you want to move up in the industry, it makes sense for you to go as early as you can and start earning your stripe so that you can be exposed to more types of people who will bring you more opportunity if you do good work. And that's a huge thing. So if work in film production, move to a place where there's film production or theater production and have her go get an entry level job, move to Vegas, go work on Cirque du Soleil. Literally that's the advice.

Ryan Maruyama [00:06:56]:
Yeah, exactly. And I'm talking about my friend who is a video editor, who is in their production world. He went to college for film. He went to college to be a video editor and he did become a video editor, but what did he notice? And I'm sorry for those that have listened to this before, and I've heard this before, but what did he notice when he got his first job? When he finally walked into that room into that editing room and he looked at the people around him, what did he notice?

Hannah Maruyama [00:07:23]:
None of them had degrees

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:24]:
and they all had the same job and they had already been there

Hannah Maruyama [00:07:26]:
for years.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:27]:
And he was the new guy. Why did he need the degree?

Catherine [00:07:30]:
He didn't.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:30]:
He just needed to keep doing his work. And this is a guy who was already doing the work prior to going to college. He did have a portfolio of work. It wasn't the best, but he did have a portfolio of

Hannah Maruyama [00:07:41]:
work. He put in 4 years, then he would have been.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:43]:
He would have put in 4 years and his economics would have gone the other way instead of paying to go to film school or instead of paying to get this film degree, he would have been working and honing his skill and honing his craft for 4 years and getting paid while doing it.

Hannah Maruyama [00:07:59]:
One thing I really want to say here is that, and I know we get a lot of backlash about this, but we're not saying that you can't learn anything getting a film degree. What we are saying is that you are much more likely to learn things that are useful, that are going to be done by people who work in the industry or you are trying to get into. People who teach film at schools, unless they are professional producers, professional videographers that work in whatever industry, be that TV news, podcasts, live events, concerts, whatever, music theater, music theater movie. If they don't work in that directly, they are teaching you theory. They don't know. They have never done it. They have never used it. The people that you learn from when you go into the industry are actually using it for their actual work.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:38]:
And you are a step closer instead of a step removed. And that does make a big difference when you were talking about skill and excellence and experience and connection, which are all of the things that build a solid career.

Ryan Maruyama [00:08:48]:
And once again, just to sum that up, assuming that it is an art production and some sort of film or music production or TVs, the advice would be to not go to college and to just go start working in that field. Assuming that she wants to do that, Catherine, she probably already has a portfolio. And if she doesn't, then she needs to start that now. She needs to start working on whatever it is now. If she wants to be a music producer, she needs to start producing music. If she wants to be a film director or if she wants to be a video editor or any one of those things, she needs to go and start doing any one of those things. And if she doesn't have the equipment to do it, then she just needs to be resourceful to do it and just use what she has, where she is off the top of my head. Most people have a smartphone and there are a lot of apps out there that can help her get majority of the way there.

Ryan Maruyama [00:09:40]:
And then you just have to be, get the ingenuity and the resourcefulness out of whatever equipment that you have.

Hannah Maruyama [00:09:46]:
And I will say this, this is my bias. If your child is interested in an art or creative field, and they're a senior in high school and they've applied to universities and they've been accepted and your child is going, I'm not really sure what art career I want, and they do not have a portfolio of any kind. Your child should not be going to art school. They should not be doing that. They do not have enough in them to already have done it. That is not how you build a career in the arts. I want to tell a story about a young man that we worked with. When he came to us, he ended up going through the launch program and he landed on audio engineering and production because it fit his needs.

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:18]:
Now, one of the things about him that's unusual is that he had already produced and published over 200 and songs on SoundCloud. He had already collaborated with small indie artists. He had already gotten them to write letters of referral in his spare time. That's all he did. All he did was write. All he did was record. All he did was edit. He just sat there with his headphones in every spare bit of time that he had.

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:41]:
And then he also did the business part, which is he started reaching out to people and collaborating and saying, Hey, can you publish my stuff? Can you do this? If your child does that and you have money set aside for art school, then they want to sit through all the general education classes to get to the art part. Maybe that's the right fit. If whatever job they're going to get fits their life goals, and it's not going to financially damage your family. If you are going, my child's been accepted to 3 universities and they're all art schools, but they're not really sure what kind of art they want to do. Do not send your child to college. That is a one way path to crushing debt. Please don't do that because if they don't have a portfolio of their own yet, college is not going to do that for them.

Ryan Maruyama [00:11:17]:
Yeah. And the thing about college, especially for the arts, is that a lot of the programs are really, really expensive.

Hannah Maruyama [00:11:24]:
Because the schools are private.

Ryan Maruyama [00:11:25]:
And I know that we're budget conscious because we said so here. That is our advice there on the production side. Now there's 2 more questions or so. The I don't know what to do. I think that's gonna be the simplest. And then I do want to make another point and answer the, should she go to college? And the accepted into 3 universities. Before we get there, let's start with, I don't know what to do. If you are in the, I don't know what to do phase.

Ryan Maruyama [00:11:55]:
The perfect thing that we should be doing is sitting on our hands, even though she did get accepted to 3 universities and 3 colleges. That is amazing and really kudos to her. That's awesome. Can't be understated, but if she doesn't know why she's going, she shouldn't go. As Hannah was saying, I don't know what to do. And I don't know where to start is exactly why we wrote the degree freeway. Literally exactly why. And Catarina, I hope if you're listening to this, you can go to degreefree.coforward/book.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:20]:
You can go ahead and grab a copy. It comes with 2, so that you can sit down and you can work with your daughter about what she needs and what she wants from her work, because this is really key to figure out the rest of it, to figure out whether or not she even needs to go to college, which sounds like she doesn't. If she wants to get into production, she has to go through her needs and wants. But once she goes through her needs and wants, depending on what they are, income location, schedule, work environment, we might find that she doesn't want to be in the industry of production right there. And that's why once again, and we've said this to crystal as well, a couple of weeks ago, we have to put the train in reverse and we have to come back to the station before we choose which direction we are going.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:05]:
If your high school senior does not know what they want to do, college is the absolute last place they should be. It's like hanging out in a place that sells submarines when you don't know you need a submarine. And in fact, you don't even know that you need to go anywhere. Eventually, if you hang out in a dealership that sells submarines, you're just gonna submarine that you don't need. And oh, shoot. You actually just needed a used Honda Civic. Like, oh, shoot. You actually just didn't need a car at all.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:26]:
You needed to walk. Oh, shoot. You actually needed a boat. And look, now you're stuck with the submarine. Don't buy things. Don't hang out in places where you're going to buy things that you don't need, that take far too long to buy, that you don't even know are going to be useful to get you the type of life that you want. That is the key here. I use this ridiculous analogy because that's how it feels to me.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:45]:
It's like watching someone buy their child a Ferrari. That's how it feels to me. Like your child doesn't even have a driver's license. Why would you buy them a Ferrari? That's crazy. Because it's the way that we package college degrees and we should stop doing that. But in the meantime, to illustrate this point, like you said, we got to roll this back. So it comes down to needs and wants. Needs are the things that are not negotiable from a job.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:05]:
Usually for most people, this is going to be income. If you want to live in a certain place, like if she wants to stay near her family and they live in California, California is expensive. She's going to have to probably earn a certain amount of money in order to afford to responsibly live in California. So how much income does she want to make? Downstream from that, where does she want to live? What location does she want to live and work in? Downstream from that, what kind of schedule does she want to have? What sort of work environment does she want to go into day in, day out, week after week, month after month? And when I say work environment, what we're talking about here is hybrid work. You go in sometimes, you work from home sometimes. She wants to work remotely. She wants to work in something that allows her to go from site to site. She's not sitting behind a desk all day, outside, inside jobs, those types of things.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:42]:
So what you have to sit down and do with her is figure out what she actually needs. How much income does she want to make? Does she need to live in? What schedule does she need to have? What work environment does she need to have? Remember that having 4 needs is really tough to satisfy. The more needs you have, the harder it is to find jobs. So really what you're looking for is one need that she absolutely must have. Like she can't take a job if it pays less than a certain amount, or she can't take a job if it's too far away for her to drive to, or she can't take a job if it makes her work 7 days a week because she has something to do on Saturdays, or she can't work in an environment where there's a lot of dust because she has asthma.

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:12]:
The thing is to get the least amount of needs as possible for a lot of people that's going to be income and schedule. So you need to make $50,000 and you want to stay in California. Boom, done. There are a lot of jobs that pay $50,000 and allow you to be in California. For some people, the fortunate few income isn't required either. It's not a need for most of us. It is, but it might be that location is the only thing that matters because income doesn't matter. I don't care about how much I figured out a way to get income some other way.

Hannah Maruyama [00:15:45]:
Or my expenses are really low.

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:47]:
Well, you always need income because otherwise you're going to pull down from something. Income comes in some other way and I don't have to worry about that. So location is my only need. If you have 4 needs, or if you have more than that, some people have more than that. They double up work environment or they double up schedule or something like that. That's a lot of needs. And so the less needs she has, the easier it is to find work that fit all of those needs. And then for the wants section, you can then prioritize that if you want.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:17]:
And where it's useful to prioritize wants is if you have very few needs. So if there's $50,000 job, that's her only need. It really helps to have a want in there to prioritize top wants. I want to work behind a desk. I want to work in a hospital setting. Perfect. Those are awesome. $50,000 here.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:37]:
I I want her to work behind a desk in a hospital. You can find things that have $50,000 in a hospital behind a desk. Those are really easy to come by. But because of those other 2 are wants, you would say, okay, well, this is a $50,000 career path, and it's in a hospital, but it's not behind a desk, but that still fits all of my needs. So maybe it is a viable career option. So we're going to keep that there. So go through the needs and wants in the degree free way. So you can figure out what jobs will fit for her needs and wants.

Ryan Maruyama [00:17:07]:
And you might find that it does come back to production.

Hannah Maruyama [00:17:09]:
Yeah, it might.

Ryan Maruyama [00:17:10]:
If it does, that's awesome. Then do exactly what we talked about, which is

Hannah Maruyama [00:17:14]:
go help her find entry level work.

Ryan Maruyama [00:17:16]:
Exactly. Build a portfolio, have her figure out how to display that portfolio in a good way or just in any way, really. I mean, at first, at first it's any way, and then we can always optimize and improve it from there. Getting a job here and getting that experience is better than going to college for, I don't know why. So we've covered production. If that really is. So we wanted to answer that first for production. Go get a job in that field.

Ryan Maruyama [00:17:42]:
I don't know what to do. That's kind of before that's upstream from all of that. And if truly, the degree free way, this is literally the exact person, Katarina. You are the person that we've made these books for. So please degreefree.coforward/book. You can go ahead and get those there. Now, the last thing is, should she go to college? Once again, I'll say getting accepted to 3 universities is amazing. And I don't know what it's like to have that first generation pressure to attend college.

Ryan Maruyama [00:18:11]:
I mean, that's a major accomplishment. I do know my family is Asian, and so there's the Asian pressure to go to college. They're immigrants too, but we immigrated a long time ago, but there still is a pressure to go to college. And from my experience of talking to all of these families that we've talked to, the pressure usually comes from wanting a better life and wanting success and thinking that college degree is going to help her and help her family and her future family, and possibly you gain success in the future. But college does not equal success. College does not guarantee success. The only thing that going to college guarantees is the cost of going to college in both time and money.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:52]:
And energy.

Ryan Maruyama [00:18:53]:
Those are the only things that are guaranteed from buying a college degree. The success on the other side, isn't a guarantee. From my perspective, I can understand how you would think if we've equated getting a college degree with getting a better life, that that's a major accomplishment because you definitely want a better life. But if we remove the middleman there and instead of saying, if college degree then better life, what if we just say better life and we just remove the college degree? So how can we circumvent that whole thing to just go around the college degree and be like, well, hard work. And once again, what I like to say is hard work doesn't matter, but rather working hard on the right things matter. For example, for her, if she wanted to go into art production, she could work really hard in her art production and her arts film degree in her area of study. She could work really hard. The chances of that working out at the end, it's very low.

Ryan Maruyama [00:19:45]:
Just due to the amount of jobs that are actually out there and the amount of talent that has been doing it while she's in college, no matter how good she's doing in college, there are people out there in the field that are actually doing it, that are building their portfolio in the real world with real world systems. And then networking is a huge one.

Hannah Maruyama [00:20:02]:
Their names are going to be in people's minds.

Ryan Maruyama [00:20:04]:
And so I totally understand from what I can understand that pride in having her like, wow, wow, this is awesome. This is amazing that she got accepted to these three places. Where should she go? But maybe the answer is none of them. That might be a difficult reality to, to stomach and to hear. But I know that you asked us degree free for a reason. That's just what I think the reality is. Just know that buying a college degree does not equal success. I think that success equals success.

Ryan Maruyama [00:20:31]:
And while the college degree is something that can validate a stepping stone to it. It's a lot of reasons why parents and families are so intent on people getting college degrees because it's like, oh, well, it's a checkpoint along the way of their life to get to success because there are so few checkpoints along the way. How many of those things really exist in your life before you actually make it those that are a little bit older? I'm sure that you can agree to this. Think back on your own life. Think about your very first job and think about where you are today. Look how quickly that happened and how many noticeable checkpoints along the way were there really

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:05]:
other than promotions? Maybe

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:06]:
exactly. That's what I'm saying. It would be industry jumps and promotions, but a lot of times it's just the grueling day in day out of doing the same thing, improving every single day until it is time to then get that promotion. And that is that external validation, but that external validation in that promotion isn't widely accepted to everybody else in society. Right. But a college degree or working towards a college degree or getting accepted and then finishing your college degree is widely accepted in society as a valid stepping stone into the next portion of your life for success. And if you are as cost conscious as you say that you are, then this is a terrible idea. If she doesn't know what she wants to do, she doesn't know how to get there.

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:48]:
If she doesn't know how college and buying a degree fits into her life goals, don't buy, don't pull the trigger, please. How many of those universities should go to? Which one should she pick? Don't pick any of them. Them. Colleges are always there. They will always take your money.

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:01]:
Also when your daughter is 25, she will be independent from you on the FAFSA. And when that happens, whatever she would pay for tuition will go down dramatically. And also with life experience, she's much more likely to pick something because her brain will be fully formed. It forms at 25. She will be much more likely to pick something if she is going to go to college for a degree. It will be because the one she is buying is actually necessary for her to make the next move in her life. And she will probably study better. It will probably be much less stressful and it will be a much better fit that she will not bitterly regret later.

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:32]:
And that will not actively keep her from making other choices later as well.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:35]:
The way that I think about this whole college thing, and this is kind of a new thing, but I've thought about it a little bit. And this is the first time that I'm releasing it into the world here is I think of college like Willy Wonka selling his golden tickets.

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:48]:
That's super accurate.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:49]:
In the story, millions, the world, basically, literally the entire world is like, how can I tour this chocolate factory? And he's like, well, there's like 6 golden tickets or something like that. 1000000 and millions and millions of people buy in, but only a few find the ticket. And that is exactly what we have in the college system today. Many people think that they're going to tour Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. They're going to get an all expenses paid trip to go and tour the factory and see how the chocolate is made and everything like that. And see the Oompa Loompas and see Mr. Beast. And.

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:23]:
Oh, he's Mr. Beast is Willy Wonka now.

Catherine [00:23:26]:
Do

Ryan Maruyama [00:23:26]:
you remember that? He made a chocolate factory.

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:28]:
I am not 12 years old, so I don't watch Mr. Beast. He's degree free, but I don't watch.

Ryan Maruyama [00:23:36]:
No, yeah, no. I didn't watch it either.

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:38]:
Today, I'm gonna give away America. Watch me in the yeah. Alright. That's all I got. Yeah. I've seen one intro and only because you made me watch it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:23:47]:
Yeah. That is really what it is. Very few people see a positive ROI on their investment in some measurable way that they can trace back to their actual degree and to their time and their efforts in their degree program. Whereas the majority of people that go, they just get stuck with the guaranteed cost of buying the candy bar. They just buy the candy bar and then they eat the chocolate and then they don't have anything else to show for it. And then 6 people, they get the golden ticket.

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:15]:
Very accurate analogy. Well, I

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:16]:
want to hear other people's take on it. So let us know the YouTube comments. Let us know on Spotify, things like that. Katharina, I hope that that was helpful for you. Very grateful that you asked your question and you trust us enough to help us guide you and your young adult through this part of their life. If you listening to this, have a question that you want answered, go to ask.degreefree.co. It is a video, so you can do it on your phone. It's pretty simple.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:39]:
You just click record. It doesn't matter, guys. So just for those I have got questions about it, I just wanna let people know. It doesn't matter what it looks like or what you look like. It doesn't matter what you sound like. You can sit there as well. I think there's an 8 minute limit on it. You don't have to do multiple takes or anything like that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:55]:
We will take it and we will edit it. It can be 8 minutes long. That's fine. We'll get the root question down.

Hannah Maruyama [00:25:02]:
We won't be mean to you. We'll just cut out the umms and we'll just get to the actual question.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:05]:
Right. Exactly. And then more plus, we don't wanna listen to it 8 minutes. We're gonna shorten these up. Both Crystal's and Catherine's here. They were both edited and not heavily or anything like that. They were just

Hannah Maruyama [00:25:16]:
and other things that weren't the core question.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:18]:
Exactly. They said, actually, both of these people said a lot of niceties that were not in the here in the question, which I appreciate to both crystal and Catherine as well. Thank you so much guys. Very moving. I know we lost all of our viewers and all of our listeners at this point now, because I'm rambling, but it really means a lot to us. This is really cool. I know that we work with people in our launch program and I know that people buy the degree freeway and everything like that. These people, they didn't buy from us.

Hannah Maruyama [00:25:41]:
Yeah. They just wanted to ask a question.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:43]:
Exactly. Because they trust us enough. I hope you guys do become customers of ours someday or anything like that, but it's like more than that. You know what I mean? I don't know what I'm saying, but do you understand what I'm saying?

Hannah Maruyama [00:25:51]:
Yeah, I think so.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:52]:
I think that's pretty much it, guys. I really hope that you guys ask your questions and I hope you guys like this. If you guys want to get the degree free way, degreefree.coforward/book. Until next week, guys, aloha.